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From	Message
joejoe_65324 16-Oct-12, 10:42	stealth invader: hmmm well i have been told that bringing your knights out first is better than bring out the bishops am i wrong? i mean if im black and what i always do now is bring my knight to d4 than they can take my free pawn. it doesnt always work but sometime some people do fall for it. but when im white i bring out my knights first than my bishops. is that not the right way to do it?
the-sigularity 16-Oct-12, 11:12	Basic Instruction Developing N's before B's is considered sound practice, but since we are acting as a group, and there is no harm in to allowing the B move. Remember, we have superior guidance from Pete, who will not allow us to make disastrous mistakes.
joejoe_65324 16-Oct-12, 11:54	Deleted by joejoe_65324 on 16-Oct-12, 11:55.
kepplersteve 16-Oct-12, 17:31	Bc5 Gives us more strength in the middle of the board. Pete Just got your message. I've been wandering lately. Got back from Ireland last Sunday, beautiful country, sort of what I remember about Scotland.
the-sigularity 16-Oct-12, 17:40	WELCOME BACK STEVE Pete, I believe we can now proceed to the next move?
bigpeta 18-Oct-12, 03:00	move time patience julio   I have to make sure that everyone has had time to log in and have their say plus any discussion that generates. Its only 5 days since i posted the last move. It is good to see the lively discussion which is going on. I just want to make sure that more of the group join in. And i agree - welcome back steve
efc8 18-Oct-12, 05:45	New vote game Now that we have time lets look at this variation ..........Nf6 Ng5...Bc5 Nxf7..Bxf2+ Kxf2..Nxe4+
bigpeta 18-Oct-12, 07:36	@ecf8 Now that we have time lets look at this variation ..........Nf6 Ng5...Bc5 Nxf7..Bxf2+ Kxf2..Nxe4+ why would you play Bc5 instead of the superior d5 which blocks the B and N combination on f7?? after Bxf2+ white would play Kf1 and you have lost a Q or R you are all on the right path with Nf6 or Bc5. I think Bc5 is a little better. There has been comments about Ns before Bs. These are basic guidelines and not rules written in stone.
efc8 18-Oct-12, 12:07	bigpeta Thanks Pete, attacking the King with the B loses. d5 is correct. efc8
the-sigularity 18-Oct-12, 13:56	Moves written in stone I believe we can all agree with Pete on the theory that N before B is a basic guideline, and not something that "must" be done, every time in every game regardless of the danger encountered during the course of a game. But in this case, I believe moving the N to f6 is a very good move, and the pawn to d5 could follow to nullify the attack at f7 as Pete has indicated. The only reason I conceded to the B move, is to continue. But as Pete suggested, PATIENCE is a necessary virtue which is absolutely important when playing this game. I have learned that when playing black, one must solidify the position before taking any aggressive moves, and be alert for wresting the advantage from white when the time is right in order to win.
efc8 19-Oct-12, 03:18	New vote game Stealth Invader, Pete believes Bc5 is a little better.
bigpeta 22-Oct-12, 03:40	Move 4 Board Position Latest moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 There is plenty of time for reasoned discussion.
efc8 22-Oct-12, 03:54	New vote game 0-0..........Nf6 preparing to castle
efc8 22-Oct-12, 04:17	New vote game or 0-0.........Qe7 to protect f7
joejoe_65324 22-Oct-12, 11:26	pawn to d6 to let the bishop out or knight to f6 or pawn h6
the-sigularity 22-Oct-12, 21:14	4......Nf6 4......Nf6 because now we have our B at c5 as recommended
efc8 23-Oct-12, 05:38	New vote game 4..........h6 is good to break up the N & B attack on f7. 4..........d6 open diagonal for the Bishop and also prevents Ng5. So, we have Nf6, h6, d6 and Qe7 to date that we can select from. Which is the best one?
the-sigularity 23-Oct-12, 12:25	4......Nf6 After 4,,,Nf6 we will be ahead in development and the threat of an attack at f7 will no longer exist. This is true because if the f3N is moved to g5 we castle. If he were to take the pawn (which he will not) because we would then gain a B and N for a R. On the other hand, if he moves d3 to open up the diagonal for his other B, and protect the B, then d5 would give us the advantage. Please go over this carefully, and point out any errors.
efc8 23-Oct-12, 12:30	New Vote Game With white castled King side, I like d6. Hoping to encourage white to attack and block the center and queen side then attack on the King side. Castling on the Queen side if necessary. I will start the voting with 4.........d6 (one of joejoe's suggestions)
michael350 23-Oct-12, 16:13	hello everyone i vote 5....Nf6. there's time for 5...Bc5 later
hogfysshe 24-Oct-12, 06:00	4. ...d6 or 4. ...Nf6, ...hmm stealth-invader wrote <<<......If he were to take the pawn (which he will not) because we would then gain a B and N for a R.>>> that would be R+P for N+B, not R for N+B. and it would leave our king less safe in the long run than if we kept all three pawns. I'm not saying he'll take that route (I agree he probably won't as after the exchange he'd have zero developed pieces to our three). but he might. so, joejoe and Edward's candidate move 4. ...h6 is worth a look and should stay in the running. that said, either 4. ...d6 or 4. ...Nf6 is probably the way to go. looking forward to hearing any additional discussion. Edward's suggestion that we leave the option to castle queenside open is an interesting one (and I suppose gives an edge to 4. ...d6 which perhaps gives us more flexibility than 4. ...Nf6).
michael350 24-Oct-12, 09:34	Vote game There is a little move 4... Be7 that I used when I was young because I didn't have knowledge of the opening
fr1ar 24-Oct-12, 16:39	4. ...d6 I'm going to say d6, this starts pointing everything for a Kingside attack and it helps strengthen e5. I don't see White hitting with a quick attack right now, he will need to play a pawn or two so he can fully develop the minor pieces. I would say to use this time in strengthening what we have and look for the chance to take initiative once we have a solid position.
the-sigularity 24-Oct-12, 17:38	Thanks hogfysshe Your critique was well received, I knew we would be minus a pawn besides the rook. This was the reason I asked for careful scrutiny, to see if at least someone was actually reading my comments. Thanks again. I still believe 4....Nf6 is the best way to go because: We are playing a 2000+ opponent who will not take the f7 pawn because it is a very bad move, which would be played only if an opponent is grossly underestimated
efc8 25-Oct-12, 09:53	New Vote Game 4...............Nf6 5 d4 Instead of taking the f7 pawn
the-sigularity 25-Oct-12, 10:18	White d4 after 4.....Nf6? 4.........Nf6 5.d4....NXd4 6.NXe5...0-0 7.???? Am I missing something?
efc8 25-Oct-12, 10:49	New Vote Game 6 Nxe5........0-0 7 Nd3.........Bb6 8 e5 I was just showing that white doesn't have to capture f7
bigpeta 25-Oct-12, 14:06	Be7 Qe7 These moves I have played against the ruy lopez (white plays Bb5 instead of Bc4). I dont think they are appropriate here. h6 is not really a developing move at this point. so that leaves the main discussion around Nf6 or d6.
the-sigularity 26-Oct-12, 07:15	4.....Nf6 VS 4......d6 Since I VOTE FOR 4.......Nf6 I will give the advantages, and hope the advocate/s for 4.......d6 will do the same. 4......Nf6 is a developing move which will allow 0-0 immediately afterwards to bring our K to a safer place. We have already considered that our opponent will not risk 5.NXf7 (or BxF7). If W does not develop with 5.Nc3, then 5.....d5 would give us the opportunity to wrest the initiative of attack as I once indicated. Please respond with objections, and reasons why d6 is better.
joejoe_65324 26-Oct-12, 09:21	i think Nf6 would be a bit better cause than he might move his knight to b3 than you can take his pawn with your knight on e4. plus that will let you castle king side. than again d6 might be better cause you need to let the bishop out and also castle queen side might be the best bet i dont know.
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