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From	Message
the-sigularity 05-Mar-13, 18:40	Vote NF6 1. ... Nf6 Threat e4 p 2. Qxd6 Nc4 Threat Q and e3N (Pinned by our Q) I like this moves because it keeps our N's with threat after threat, like a threat on p at b2 and still the threat at e4 p. I believe that as long as we keep dictating (controlling) the moves, we may eventually gain the initiative and enhance our possibility of winning the game. But there may be a flaw in some of the moves I recommend of course, therefore I ask as I have before, that the other members dedicate serious considerations, and critique to my suggestions please.
zed2 05-Mar-13, 18:46	if Nf6 then Qxd6 1. ... Nf6 2. Qxd6 As per previous discussion
the-sigularity 05-Mar-13, 18:58	Yes But could you (any club member) expound and consider the continuation following: 1. ... Nf6 2. Qxd6 And look beyond this, (QXd6) as I politely requested on my previous post?
hogfysshe 05-Mar-13, 19:23	that is interesting stealth will take a look. note that b2 may be one of those places a knight can't safely retreat from. so maybe after Qxd6 Nc4, white plays back to Qd3 and we have lost a pawn (AND our N is attacked twice, ...and as noted can't safely play Nxb2).
efc8 05-Mar-13, 20:08	New Vote Game Marathongirl, Should read Rfe1
bigpeta 06-Mar-13, 00:03	Nf6 or Nc4 Nf6 is more likely to get Bxe5 and not Qxd6. Nc4 leads to many exchanges and he ends up with B & N for R. Nc4 Bxc4 Bxc4 hxg4 Bxf1 Rxf1.
kepplersteve 06-Mar-13, 19:37	Stealth Thank You I'm back in the thread, Hard to catch up at this point, Pete can you post a new board
efc8 07-Mar-13, 03:12	New Vote Game h3............BxB I vote for BxB to preserve the pawn structure around the King.
bigpeta 07-Mar-13, 07:00	just for steve steve just to save you the struggle of going back a page to find the current board
kepplersteve 09-Mar-13, 19:30	Rad1 Just a different approach prevents Qxd6 Pete Thanks for the new board, I was going crazy flipping around.
efc8 09-Mar-13, 19:37	New Vote Game Kepplersteve, You mean ..................Rd8 giving the N away?
zed2 09-Mar-13, 19:43	@Steve If we moved Rad1 it wouldn't resolve the problem of his Pawn on h file threatening our Ng4. I'm still thinking Ng4xNe3 where we would end up with even material. If we move Ne5 to c4 then as Pete says we would end up with 2 rooks to his B N and R
hogfysshe 09-Mar-13, 19:59	I didn't really understand... ...what pete was getting at when he asked what would happen if we let our B be captured. would be happy to hear more about that. but if that doesn't come back up, I'll go with marathongirl's candidate and vote for 17. ...Nxe3.
zed2 09-Mar-13, 20:05	@hf Pete will correct me if I am wrong but I think he was saying if they took our Bishop on e6 and we retailiated with f7xBe6 it would leave our King vulnerable. He would be simply behind the single pawn on g file.
bigpeta 10-Mar-13, 00:41	@mg correct on that. Now you have to decide if that is a problem you need to deal with or not. again im just pointing out areas you appear to have missed.
hogfysshe 10-Mar-13, 06:15	well we've determined that and immediate ...Nc4 ...leads to probably being down -1 and that an immediate Nf6 may invite BxB right off (and may lead to an isolated pawn on e6). I think we take the bad with the good and will stick with my vote. as usual am open to being persuaded to change. is there a candidate we haven't considered. looking at ...Nc4 again, at the end of the predicted sequence. looks like we might then lose another pawn. his doubled pawns on the g-file may be a point in our favor. but I think white looks better. diagram extending a bit from pete's predicted sequence (if we play 17. ...Nc4).
bigpeta 12-Mar-13, 14:31	NxN Looks like this just has the edge in votes so i will play that for us.
bigpeta 13-Mar-13, 10:58	Move 18 Looks like ion made a mistake here. Strongest was Bxe3 chasing our Q off the diagonal Board Position Latest moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4 Bxd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Be3 Nc6 8.Nc3 h6 9.f4 exf4 10.Bxf4 d6 11.Nd5 0-0 12.Bxh6 Ng4 13.Bf4 Nce5 14.Bb3 c6 15.Ne3 Qb6 16.Qd2 Be6 17.h3 Nxe3 18.Qxe3
zed2 13-Mar-13, 13:03	QxQ It seems to me that the only option here is to take their Q. There will be a bit clean out then and in the end we should end up with a Knight versus a Bishop for them. As the N covers the whole board and the B only half the board I think we would be in a better position materially. Is my thinking correct Pete?
bigpeta 13-Mar-13, 13:48	@mg i have put up some notes in a new thread on B vs N
hogfysshe 15-Mar-13, 15:19	immediate BxB more or less the same... ...I think. from Pete's post on N and B pros and cons, if all things were equal I think we'd want our B more than our N (pawns being on both sides of the board). But, the other guideline of 'do the best thing in the current circumstances' may mean we can't keep the B w/o paying too high a price. so unless someone has a better idea, I think either marathongirl's suggestion or 19. Bxb3 may be the way to go. no opinion yet on if one is better than the other. would like to hear what fr1ar, steve, efc8, hvacr, joejoe, igo4mtns and queensknight think.
efc8 15-Mar-13, 17:44	New Vote Game I prefer...Q x Q B x Q......d5 Bc5........Rfd8
zed2 15-Mar-13, 22:22	QxQ I think not to take the Queen would mean a big clean out and we wouldn't end up in front by my reckoning so I will stick with QxQ
hogfysshe 16-Mar-13, 05:32	not saying we shouldn't exchange queens... ...only that we could take it the second move instead of the first and that there MAY be some benefit to that move order.
zed2 16-Mar-13, 11:37	Still thinking I've just had a look at the different scenarios which could play out so I will see what the others think. I'm still leaning towards the Q x Q.
bigpeta 18-Mar-13, 07:57	immediate BxB not the same there is one crucial difference between exchanging Qs now and exchanging Bs now. if we start with BxB then after QxQ axQ (note not cxQ or you leave an isolated d-pawn) then black follows with axB and you have created an open a-file with opposing Rs on it. This will set up unnecessary tensions from which whoever loses will have the enemy R controlling the a-file and getting behind opponents pawns. Now i am not saying that QxQ is better than BxB, that is for you to decide, but you do need to be aware of the outcome of starting with BxB
hogfysshe 18-Mar-13, 10:38	implication thanks Pete. you say that you're not saying one is better than the other. But you also say "...UNNECESSARY tensions..." (caps added) which I'll take as a hint. I had seen that the a-file could could open up, but not necessarily what that might lead to. this is one of the things I need to work on: how to manage pawns on two flanks once many pieces are off the board. in addition to "unnecessary," you also say "crucial." will take this to mean we should leave our a-pawn where it is and focus the action elsewhere. seems like he may be opening his end of the a-file soon, though. looking forward to seeing what happens. voting QxQ.
bigpeta 19-Mar-13, 15:14	move 18 voting i have played QxQ for us
bigpeta 20-Mar-13, 03:44	Move 19 Board Position Latest moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4 Bxd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Be3 Nc6 8.Nc3 h6 9.f4 exf4 10.Bxf4 d6 11.Nd5 0-0 12.Bxh6 Ng4 13.Bf4 Nce5 14.Bb3 c6 15.Ne3 Qb6 16.Qd2 Be6 17.h3 Nxe3 18.Qxe3 QxQ 19.BxQ
zed2 20-Mar-13, 03:52	BxB The first move which springs to mind now is the BxB move. Our opposition will end up with a double pawn and we would counter with a6.
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