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From	Message
snowman100 10-May-13, 14:58	RD7 Best for me. Preparing to double rooks on e File and stops B coming immediately to C7 winning the d pawn.
hogfysshe 11-May-13, 12:36	voting 24. ...Rd7 very curious to see what Ion has in mind.
bigpeta 12-May-13, 10:29	move 25 Ion is ahead of you. He gave me a conditional move for Rd7 so here it is Board Position Latest moves 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.d4 Bxd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 7.Be3 Nc6 8.Nc3 h6 9.f4 exf4 10.Bxf4 d6 11.Nd5 0-0 12.Bxh6 Ng4 13.Bf4 Nce5 14.Bb3 c6 15.Ne3 Qb6 16.Qd2 Be6 17.h3 Nxe3 18.Qxe3 QxQ 19.BxQ Bxb3 20.axb3 a6 21.Rad1 Rad8 22.Rd2 f6 23.Rfd1 Nf7 24.Bb6 Rd7 25.Bc5
zed2 12-May-13, 14:10	Rf to d8 I don't think there is much option is there apart from this is there?
snowman100 12-May-13, 14:18	Rf to d8 Yes..Pretty much forced.
hogfysshe 12-May-13, 14:33	options vs options AN option would be to play ...Re8 and trade pawns (and possibly one rook each). but I don't know if it is a GOOD option. 25. ...Rfd8 is what I thought as well. Then, depending on the bishop's mood, we can toggle back and forth between d8 and e8, ...with e attacking the pawn and giving access to e6. things may soon get very interesting. will some action develop on the f, g, & h files? when will the kings get in to the game?
zed2 12-May-13, 15:01	If Re8 It depends on what position we want our pieces to end up in as well. If we play Re8 ... Re8 Bxd6 Nxd6 Rxd6 Rxd6 Rxd6 Rxe4 Which would leave us with a rook each and five pawns....potential for draw.
snowman100 12-May-13, 15:20	If Re8 I think after all the exchanges whites rook gets into a more threatening position threatening our Queenside pawns before we can threaten his. I think we will always be struggling defending those pawns being one tempi behind.
bigpeta 14-May-13, 14:52	Why does it have to be a R move? Just remember to go through your board check each piece can it take can it be taken.
zed2 14-May-13, 15:03	Ummm? I have looked at this and from what I see if we don't move a rook we will end up with one R each after going through Bxd6 Nxd6 Rxd6 Rxd6 Rxd6 Is this a desired result?
hogfysshe 14-May-13, 15:19	perhaps a detour away from Pete's point 25. ...Ng5 is not uninteresting, attacking e4 and e6 as it would. but my initial thought is that Ion could easily nullify the knight's potential. also need to look at possibly pinning the bishop. but this is just a quick look before dinner. will be able to think better after (when I will also have no time).
zed2 14-May-13, 15:25	Here's one scenario for Ng5 Ng5 2. Bxd6 Nxe4 3. Bxf8 Nxd2 4. Rxd2 Rxd2 which would leave us with advantage if played this way so I think Ng5 is worth considering.
efc8 15-May-13, 00:01	Ionadowman votegame I vote for Ng5 regardless of white's reply Black will gain the advantage
snowman100 15-May-13, 01:49	Zed2 Following Zed2's moves, after 4...Rxd2, surely we win a piece. Because white has to move his Bishop because it is threatened by our king and when he does we have Nf3+ with a discovered attack picking up the white rook on d1. If, instead of moving the bishop he tries to move the king to f2 to get close enough to protect the rook we play Nd4 check again with a discovered attack to pick up the rook. Therefore after 25.....Ng5 he cannot play Bd6 so he is forced to protect his d pawn with one of his rooks and we have taken the sting right out of his position. In fact we can then play 26...Rd8 and it looks as if we have turned the tables on white and we have the initiative. If he doubles the rooks on the d file we can do the same and then win the d pawn by the thrust f5!
snowman100 15-May-13, 01:55	I vote g5 Sorry I forgot to say that for the above reasons I definitely vote Ng5.
zed2 15-May-13, 17:50	If we go.... If we go Ng5 we would end up with a Knight and pawns and he would end up with a Bishop plus pawns. Would we consider out Knight to be an advantage over a Bishop which only covers half the board? If we go Rd8 it may not end up an exchange if moves his pieces away as after all he would need to start the exchange by taking our pawn on d6.
bigpeta 16-May-13, 03:19	my last post was designed to promote the idea from that old grandmaster - Emanuel Lasker - who said - "When you see a good move, look for a better one". I felt the team were getting tunnel vision with the R move. Ignoring the rest of the board. So now you have found a different move you have to decide is it better?
hogfysshe 19-May-13, 14:55	can't tell not sure which is better. zed2, if we did end up with N+pawns vs B+pawns, Pete's comments in his "B vs N" thread makes me think we would not be as good. depending on how Ion responds to ...Ng5 (by making no capture for example), we could end regrouping with rooks on d or e anyway. I do like how ...Ng5 may open things up a little. So, unless someone persuades me to go back to 25. ...Rfd8, I'll vote 25. ...Ng5. as far as zed2's point about N vs B, if anyone wants to hold firm on that and take the position that we CAN NOT risk the B tipping the scales in favor of white AND ALSO THAT ...Ng5 must lead to all four rooks coming off the board, then again I'll consider changing my vote.
zed2 19-May-13, 16:02	Ng5 has problems If Ng5 Rxd6 Rxd6 Bxd6 Our rook is left on f file directly in line with his Bishop so we would need to move it rather than take his pawn with our Knight which would leave him a pawn up.
hogfysshe 19-May-13, 16:24	what if after Bxd6... we play ...Rd8?
zed2 19-May-13, 23:38	whatg if after Bsd6 Ng5 2. Bxd6 Rfd8 3. Bb4 Rxd2 4. Rxd2 Rxd2 5. Bxd2 We would end up with no rooks but a N and he a B
zed2 19-May-13, 23:40	If Rxd6 Ng5 2. Rxd6 He could take with his rook which would not be good for us
hogfysshe 20-May-13, 04:14	no reason we have to be unanimous re "what if...," I agree that is a potential concern. you had expressed this before and I also agreed 5 posts up. That may be the main point against ...Ng5. re your post immed above, this is how the sequence you described 4 posts up began. Would still be interested in your thoughts re my response 3 posts up.
snowman100 20-May-13, 05:02	RE: Rxd6 in response to Ng5 Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly but I can't see what the confusion is. 25...Ng5 seems good in all variations to me. If 26.Rxd6 Rxd6 Then, If 27..Bxd6, Rd8 is good..pinning the bishop against the rook. or If 27.Rxd6, Nxe4 is good...forking Bishop and Rook. Both continuations are good for black.
bigpeta 20-May-13, 09:28	white protects e4 in the event of Ng5 white has to play Rd4 to protect his only forward asset.
snowman100 20-May-13, 10:59	Re: White protects e4 If White plays Rd4 in response to 25....Ng5, Black surely plays 26....Re8 and is OK? Because if White continues 27.Bxd6 black can play 27...Rxd4 and is at least holding his own after that. As long as he keeps at least one rook surely his knight will be equal to the bishop in the endgame seeing that Black has the compensation of whites double pawn weakness to counterbalance the superiority of the Bishop over the Knight. If, on the other hand, White instead plays 27.Rxd6 black plays 27...Rxd6 and whichever way White recaptures it is winning for Black. i.e. if White plays 28.Rxd6 Black plays Nxe4 forking Whites Bishop and Knight. Or, if White plays 28.Bxd6 Black responds with Rd8 pinning the bishop to the Rook.
bigpeta 21-May-13, 03:14	time to decide we have 2 definite votes for Ng5 (snowman and ecf8) whilst jo and todd are still deciding. can i ask you two to make up your mind so i can play a move
zed2 21-May-13, 15:46	Ng5 Sorry everyone to hold you up. Life is a bit hectic right now.
hogfysshe 21-May-13, 16:58	...Ng5 - fine with me if it turns out this is a bad move (and even if it's definitely good), hopefully Pete and Ion will analyze and discuss with us post-game and we'll learn some valuable lessons.
bigpeta 22-May-13, 00:49	playing Ng5 i think that was the better of the moves but it was close.
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