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sirissac 08-Apr-13, 01:44 » Report abuse |
Easy enough puzzle #96971).
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123cro 08-Apr-13, 01:50 » Report abuse |
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mcmarkov 08-Apr-13, 04:42 » Report abuse |
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josep_85 08-Apr-13, 07:18 » Report abuse |
Tricky |
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bb_cb_love_pizza 08-Apr-13, 15:17 » Report abuse |
![]() Won't necessarily come to everyone's mind right off the bat though, that's right. However, if you have in mind that this is a PUZZLE and is not supposed to have anything in common with an actual Game but the (theoretical) possibility of the position to happen in a game, it is a regulation for puzzles that castling is ALWAYS possible given the proper position of King and Rook. Only exception to this is when you can prove in retrospective that one of those 2 pieces (King, Rook) actually HAD to move to reach this actual position. cheers |
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jack_dragon 08-Apr-13, 16:00 » Report abuse |
@bb_cb_love_pizza |
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doctorb 08-Apr-13, 16:11 » Report abuse |
Trickynice tricky tricky puzzle, one should never stop considering EACH POSSIBLE move haha, especially with few pieces. It did take quite a while though... |
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sirissac 08-Apr-13, 19:26 » Report abuse |
prehistory and theoretical possibility...@bb_cb_love_pizza: "it is a regulation for puzzles that castling is ALWAYS possible given the proper position of King and Rook"? I've never heard of this, nor any entity assigning regulations on Chess puzzles. I'd be very interested know who/what says this. But I personally think that its a bad regulation to say the least, after all, if a puzzle is in print (like in the Westminster Gazette 96 years ago) you can't click on the piece and see if white can castle, and proving whether or not its possible that white can or cannot is computationally much harder than the problem in question. |
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123cro 09-Apr-13, 06:58 » Report abuse |
to sirissac |
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bb_cb_love_pizza 09-Apr-13, 07:03 » Report abuse |
![]() It is harder indeed, to prove the (im)possibility of moves like castling (and "en passant") but there are some puzzles where the solution is fairly obvious in terms of finding mating moves if it wasnt for the problem of working out which of those moves is allowed and which ones are not. For example i once saw a puzzle where you had to work out which one of your enemy pawns can be taken en passant to mate your opponent correctly (Using the wrong pawn would result in an impossible move and therefore be wrong, or would even make you lose the game). You do not necessarily have to like that kind of a puzzle, if you dont like having to look at a problem that way, but that doesnt mean that it is a bad regulation, i know some people who enjoy those problems quite a lot because it forces you to approach the puzzle differently. However, maybe i do not understand this quote correctly: "But I personally think that its a bad regulation to say the least, after all, if a puzzle is in print (like in the Westminster Gazette 96 years ago) you can't click on the piece and see if white can castle" That is exactly why there are regulations that work out whether it is possible or not. The cases of castling not being available are very, very rare however. With that said, the only problem for you will be to actually realize that king and rook are in position to castle. And giving that away by a note (like "castling is possible")with the puzzle printed would most likely make the puzzle extremely trivial, as castling is not too often possible in Puzzles when not being part of the solution. To those regulations and the example i mentioned above: Castling is ALWAYS possible unless proven not to be possible, en passant is NEVER possible unless it can be proven that the opposition moved that specific pawn being captured from rank 2 to rank 4 with his very last move. |
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sirissac 09-Apr-13, 08:46 » Report abuse |
![]() @bb_cb_love_pizza: As for it being a bad regulation, I'm not talking about saying you can always castle. It's the 'unless it can be proven otherwise' part I don't like. What I mean is that it's masking a different problem altogether. Regardless of how rarely it is impossible, you can't assume castling (under this regulation) without some retrospective consideration. So your no longer attempting to deliver mate in x moves (the easier problem), but rather performing some sort of retrospective examination of all proceeding positions (the harder problem). That question has less to do with the playing of Chess, and more to do with logic and calculation. So it seems to subvert the idea of a Chess Puzzle, for the sake of a more abstract Logic Puzzle involving a Chess board. I've seen a puzzle like this (a retrospective one) a long time ago, but it asked something like 'White to move, is it legal to castle?'. This kind of problem can indeed be clever, but its distinguished the problem. Where as a puzzle saying "White to move, mate in x" and involving castling is obscured under that regulation. |
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snailmate 20-Mar-26, 09:16 » Report abuse |
![]() The comment about puzzle 96971 should have given it away. That one has exactly the same pieces in the same positions, which leaves only one possible way in which they can be different! Namely, different history. |
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