GameKnot: GameKnot related, Indecent competition?

GameKnot related: Indecent competition?

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stalhandske
04-Jan-18, 21:49

Indecent competition?

I was astonished to find that searching Gameknot with Google, the second item
on the list (the first was the GK site) was this

www.chess.com

Perhaps GK officials (and Owners) know this and perhaps they have taken steps about it, but to me it looks very much like illegal competition, using Gameknot's logo and all in an attempt to withdraw potential subscribers away to the competing company.

I'd appreciate a brief comment about whether this has been noted.

Gameknot.com
04-Jan-18, 23:19

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 04-Jan-18, 23:20.

Gameknot.com
04-Jan-18, 23:20

Yes, we are aware of this, and we have reported this to Google many times, as it is clearly an attempt to "game" the system. Chess.com in fact has many different pages specifically targeting other chess related websites, not just GameKnot. Sadly, Google does not appear to care, as such deceptive pages continue to rank well in their search results.

stalhandske
04-Jan-18, 23:39

Thank you for the reply. I had thought such behaviour to be illegal, but may be I am wrong.

deeper_insight
28-Jan-18, 05:08

Deleted by deeper_insight on 28-Jan-18, 06:14.

deeper_insight
28-Jan-18, 06:14

Deleted by deeper_insight on 28-Jan-18, 06:56.

deeper_insight
28-Jan-18, 06:56

Bigger is not better in many cases...

I have been a member of all the chess sites,including chess.com,and I have cancelled my account at chess.com.
Trust me,Gameknot is a much better site with far less complaints,I am sure.GK has more of a "true family"feeling better administrative response,better club like help for members and none of that weird perpetual game disruptions,accounts cancelled with no facts or explanations to support their decisions,BBB complaints and much more.
This is just a "small"sample of complaints,but there are many more:

www.sitejabber.com

Also,there may be more GM's playing on chess.com,but I highly suspect that many of the more elite memberships are tuned in for commercial gain reasons relative to attached products and other monetary gain services connected to chess.com.Just my meager opinion,of course.
There is nothing wrong with chess.com attaching all kinds of GM software,GM books and other chess products to their site,but again this "kind of"supports my "opinion"about the "whys"of some additional GM membership that may attract others to chess.com.I have had personal experience with some older chess program purchases that gave you a free year on chess.com IF and I say "IF" you purchased that program(designed by a GM).So take it from there.I know that there are free memberships on chess.com,but I clearly remember that marketing ploy to buy software then have a free year on chess.com.Perhaps it was a premium membership for that year or maybe years ago they did not have free memberships,but you get the idea,either way.GK has a few things they sell as well,but no where near the connective amount chess.com has to other vendors.

One example of many with marketing strategy:

www.chess.com

Again,nothing wrong with attaching higher end marketing to their site,but attacking the smaller guy,GK?
No,no.no....wrong and superfluous as well as supercilious.Google is also a marketing place,and supports anything that may bring them readers or profit....but that does not make it correct to allow such bashing of other great sites like GK.

Overall,there is simply way too much "crap"going on with chess.com.Of course,all chess sites have specific advantages that the others do NOT have.Some have more options than others,better blitz options,ect.But when you weigh everything on a fine scale,along with the great interface that GK has,and add in guys like me(and others through various GK chess clubs)that help others out to great lengths with their game play,you simply cannot beat GK.I always feel more content and happy here.If I was still with chess.com,you would definitely see me listing a complaint in that link above.

And if chess.com was that super successful,then they would not "need"to try and sway others from not joining GK.That shows fear in my book and is so obvious with their bad marketing strategy.Yes,I stay away from chess.com and I advise others to do the same.Yes,I will remain a member of of two others chess sites(for my rated blitz games that are specifically designed for blitz),but see,that is just for blitz.For better,pure long term correspondence games with less problems going on(compared to chess.com),GK cannot be beat.We are a smaller community of players...but that is what makes us superior to all other chess sites!

By the way,if GK wants to delete this post of mine,I understand completely.Perhaps they do not want to stir up the pot of stew.But I just wanted to put my penny of thought in here,if even for a short while.

Best,
Joe

tower919
28-Jan-18, 21:33

I’m not a fan of chess.com (was a member there many years ago but didn’t like the layout and functionality of the site; in these respects, GK is far superior.) To be fair, it appears the site Joe referenced has a post about GK from someone named Marty (Mårten?) W. that addresses one of the drawbacks of GK.

deeper_insight
28-Jan-18, 22:31

There will always be complaints about all chess sites.No one can be satisfied,it seems.However,when you closely examine many of the complaints about GK,they are unfounded.
Some complainers state that their are no forums to help people...false.Some state that their are no tournaments...false.Other comments:there is no open forum to improve the site...false. There has been no improvements in GK in over 3 years....false.You have to pay a club fee to start your own forum....true,but so what?On other chess sites you do not even have that option,so its a plus.Also it limits the amount of clubs,which GK has its reasons for.

In summary,for every "drawback"I read about GK on the net,I could give you 10 reasons it is better than other chess sites.The basis of many of the so called internet complainers were free members,not paying members,so they have no reason to complain as...freeloaders,period.They chat with no basis in logic.Proof?Sure!If you are a free member here and are not supporting the GK site financially to help improve it,then you have NO RIGHT to complain if the improvements you want do not ever appear.Its that simple.That is like saying...hey,I want that Corvette,but I am not willing to help pay for it,but give it to me anyway or I will complain to everyone in the forum and on the internet!Laughable,indeed.

But I do not want to get off topic here too much.The original thought of this thread was chess.com and how they try and manipulate others away from GK.GK does not need to play baby games like that.We all know that this site is better,well,most of us anyway.I would not have become a life member if that were not true.

tower919
28-Jan-18, 22:48

Those are all good points. I don’t know if this Mårten W. character is a paying member of GK (I suspect he probably is not,) but some people, as you indicated, will complain about anything, and GK is certainly superior to chess.com in my mind. The latter seems extremely disorganized and hard to navigate, while GK has a crisp, clean and aesthetically-pleasing look and is quite easy to navigate.

I wonder if Mårty considered his criticism in the context of other sites - my guess is he did not!

deeper_insight
28-Jan-18, 23:10

Deleted by deeper_insight on 28-Jan-18, 23:19.

deeper_insight
28-Jan-18, 23:18

Well,if you dig even deeper,many complainers to GK were previous cheaters and/or had multiple accounts(in which the same player was playing himself to try and gain a higher rating) and got CAUGHT,then thrown off the site.I know of a few.I have seen their complaints in cyberspace over the years.So then,these same players will try anything to label GK as bad.I am not sure about that martin dude.But see,it does not matter.I'm sure I could break apart his lackluster wisdom about GK when I compare it to "his"chess site and mention 20 crappy things about his domain.But its not worth it.As you said tower919..."GK has a crisp, clean and aesthetically-pleasing look and is quite easy to navigate."very true indeed.In reality,let me also add that the blitz rooms here,while needing some additional bells and whistles,are BETTER in certain ways than the blitz sites that DO have more bells and whistles.I will not mention the one blitz site than I belong to,but it has a large abundance of options.But the chess board itself stinks,is not as defined and there are more internet disconnects and what appears to me as a slower piece slide push across the board(about a half second or so) compared to GK's.Why,I do not know,but its not my computer,I had it checked by a super pro in computers.And my internet speed is the highest available on Earth,I believe.So,while GK's blitz is unrated,I still prefer to play here,rather than that elite blitz site that is very expensive with more options.Just saying.

If they paid me to join chess.com,I would still say no.

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 06:24

<To be fair, it appears the site Joe referenced has a post about GK from someone named Marty (Mårten?) W. that addresses one of the drawbacks of GK.>

Since I started this thread I'd like to know how to find that post - I could not find it from the site Joe referenced. GK may also be interested to know what drawbacks in their activity have been criticised.

deeper_insight
29-Jan-18, 07:21

More opinions with a balsawood foundation in truism...

Here is just one with more comments below as you scroll down:

www.chess.com

While the same poster mentions some good things about GK,the title of his post is..."Why Gameknot.com is a terrible chess website".

Another complaint about ad pop up blockers from a "freeloading" non paying member:

www.redhotpawn.com

Again,as I said above,free members(past or present)should not complain about ad's popping up.

That is old news and common known news.It is also not unusual to get ad pop ups on other chess sites.Simply support the site and you will not have issues.In addition it is lame to say that the GK forums are not helpful.Between the regular forums,the club forums and the Q/Answers...all is top notch in my book!And I have been on those other sites,so I would know.
And of course,my club(now deactivated due to my retirement issues and other things)was extremely helpful to many chess players.But forget my club,there are a few other older chess clubs on GK that are also very helpful.

Then you have many online complaints about GK cheats.I am not going to search for that...they are all over the place on the net.That is like saying...why is there so many pastries in a bakery?ALL chess sites(all)have cheats that use engines.It is not right to do so,but in reality it exists...on ALL sites and even more on chess.com.I know this because
of the amount of players being detected and thrown off of that site by the hordes.I still get emails from the present members on chess.com.The problem with remarks like "cheats"is that many of those posters claim that GK is at the top of the cheater list.Not so,by a long shot!That is basically an uneducated guess with only an opinion,and a bad opinion at that.And to make matters worse,a good # of those posters that claim "cheat"are,in reality,cheats themselves!!They got caught through various means,deny it,then try and claim that GK and chess.com have way too many cheats!That is called hypocrisy.

But everyone is entitled to an opinion,so there is nothing one can do about it except to show you the ridiculous comments and the reader makes his own opinion and also calls them ridiculous or true.It is just my temporary job to enlighten others to the unfounded comments made by others and other web sites as well.

Not sure about that "Marty".Did I bring Marty up?I cannot remember.Perhaps it was in one cyberspace post I referred to but I do not look at the names.Not important to me,either way.

GK is the best as I said and all those other cyberspace posters as well as chess.com trying to
brainwash others into believing that GK should be avoided is beyond lame,wrong and simply absurd.

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 07:26

<Not sure about that "Marty".Did I bring Marty up?I cannot remember.>

No, you did not. tower919 did, and I was interested in where he got it as he cited your link, in which I could not find any of the kind. So I am expecting him to explain.

tower919
29-Jan-18, 08:11

As far as I know, it was a single drawback that Mårty W. identified. If you can’t find it via the sitejabber link, it’s possible Mårten W. already deleted it (as a past or present member of GK, I am sure he has access to the GK forum.) I cannot check at the moment, but will do so later.

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 08:17

I am looking forward to that check, since there is no trace of it in the cited link.

tower919
29-Jan-18, 09:21

I found it pretty easily - where were you looking?

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 09:23

Excellent, so let us know how to find it, please. Others than me have been looking, too, but failed.

tower919
29-Jan-18, 09:27

Just click on the sitejabber link a few posts earlier and enter GK in the search field (above the chess.com post.) This isn’t rocket science 😃

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 09:33

Well, rocket science or not, that does not work for me. Please, give the final post.

tower919
29-Jan-18, 09:41

What final post? Why are you obsessing about this Mårten W. character? In the grand scheme of things, he’s pretty irrelevant, no?

Maybe have a more tech-savvy colleague assist? If I can find it, surely he or she can!

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 09:46

Except that you never showed how to find it. Why? Because it does not exist!

deeper_insight
29-Jan-18, 09:50

This is probably what tower919 was writing about:

www.sitejabber.com

I was not going to look,but when I did,it took me like 30 seconds to find it.
I cannot totally disagree with this Marty dude!Some club posts are tumultuous,redundant and cause friction to say the least,especially subjects of bickering debate like politics and religion,and yes,those subjects do tend to "hijack" many a clubs theme intentions or the thread at the very least.But its up to the founder to carve out the post policies in any club.So I do not blame the posters themselves for letting it "rip".But,but and BUT again...this does not alter the fact that GK is still the best for chess(not for political debates however on a chess site,there are better places for that)and that chess.com is wrong for badmouthing GK in their own way.I could badmouth chess.com in 50 different ways,but that is beneath me.

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 09:57

Interesting!

This "dude" is Member (of GK) since January 2018, according to the post. If I am not completely mistaken, it is a "dude" generated by tower919 for reasons he knows very well.

To deeper_insight: please note that this is a construction by tower919.

deeper_insight
29-Jan-18, 10:04

Oh...I did not know!But again I do not retract my previous statement.HOWEVER,I will not get in between you guys,that is your business,not mine.I just take some phrases I see on the net and try to show a bit of logic why most of the chat about GK is wrong....well,at least I try.But in all truth,there has been a number of clubs suspended due to some things that tower may be eluding to?If not,my apologies.But that is not my calling to take sides.Again,I just wanted to support GK against chess.com and some of those crazy posters out in cyberspace.

stalhandske
29-Jan-18, 10:08

<But that is not my calling to take sides.Again,I just wanted to support GK against chess.com and some of those crazy posters out in cyberspace.>

I appreciate that. And I fully agree with your assessment of GK relative to chess.com. After all, I started this thread because I was upset about how chess.com was "allowed" to intervene in GK's business.

The story initiated by tower919 is just something in order to annoy me, and I am sorry that you had to be involved.

tower919
29-Jan-18, 11:34

<If I am not completely mistaken, it is a "dude" generated by tower919 for reasons he knows very well.>

You are completely mistaken.

@deeper_insight: The points you raised regarding chess.com and GK were excellent and I agree with all of them. Thank you for taking the time to post them.

deeper_insight
29-Jan-18, 14:54

Thanks,both tower919 and stalhandske.
Time for me to leave now!The earth below my feet is starting to rumble!
Take care all!I'm off to Switzerland tomorrow.

tower919
29-Jan-18, 15:05

Have a good and safe trip, Joe!

Enjoy the skiing if that’s among your plans.

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