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deeper_insight 26-Feb-17, 04:30 |
 Deleted by deeper_insight on 04-Jun-17, 11:11.
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That doesn't of course work with good players. |
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IF BOBBY FISHER LIKES "CONDITIONAL MOVES, SO DO I... |
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deeper_insight 19-Jul-17, 06:37 |
Deleted by deeper_insight on 19-Jul-17, 06:40.
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deeper_insight 19-Jul-17, 06:40 |
Like it,because the "rod"will not be spared.... As to..."WHOEVER DISAGREES WITH THIS , JUST DON'T USE THEM AND YOUR PROBLEM IS SOLVEL!" Not so,actually.The "problem"is that the ones who dislike them will not use them... BUT they will still RECEIVE them,which DOES NOT "solve"their so called problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now on to those who dislike cond moves: Since the rules permit conditionals,you cannot force your opponent to stop using them.You may ask him to refrain from using them,but he...1. does not have to abide by your "wish"2.May appear to not be using them for the first few moves and then suddenly decide to use them after move 3,and their is nothing you can do about it or 3.simply laugh at you for even bringing up the subject,since you are asking him to push the rules aside to simply make YOU feel better.4.Cancel the game before move 3 if you think your opponent will be(or is)using a conditional move.What those players want is some way to switch all of them off...send and receive for any particular game.And of course,this will never happen,not on GK anyway.Perhaps other chess sites do not have conditional moves,I remember one or two from the past,but the exact names have slipped from my memory.So those who dislike conditionals should simply leave GK and go elsewhere.Now THAT may "solve"their problem. Conditional moves(if moves) have been around for centuries.I remember them being a must,especially in postal chess to save $$,especially with obvious moves. It will never change to suit those who dislike them.You MUST accept them no matter how much you dislike them....this is the cold,hard facts.So get over it,regardless if you are 300 rated or 2900 rated.If you cannot get over it,then basically correspondence chess is NOT for you,play checkers or some other board game.When you get a conditional move,simply treat it like a non conditional move,take your time...2,3,5 days or whatever the regular time limit is for the game and continue doing that for the next cond.move.It can speed up the game,but NOT necessarily speed up the game if you decide to take the full amount of reset time after you make each conditional move.So in a way,nothing has changed,whether you are 300 rated or 2900 rated.Kapish? Now a reality check with deeper psychological meaning: Rudeness comes in many subtle forms.Never "insist"that your opponent NOT use conditional moves.He has the right to use them under the rules.Ask him politely,but insisting he not use them,leaving the game due to conditionals,posting in your profile that "you will place conditional move users on your ignore list".....is all a form of subtle rudeness on YOUR part. If I personally see this "subtle"rudeness directed towards me,or something written in ones profile regarding any dislike of conditionals,it becomes MY lesson time to them.I will refrain from using them till move # 4 or so,then give them a perpetual rain shower of conditional moves in large bundles every chance I get.This is not being "rude",this is 1.following the rules 2.Placing a mirror in front of the cond move dislikers and illustrating to them how rudeness is met with "force"and with a stick like the old days to scold children and teach them the rules of necessary acceptance in society(or chess board games on GK) 3.Using increased conditional moves may indeed make some players a bit uneasy,which might give me an "edge"in the game psychologically......GOOD!!!All is fair in love and war.Just because you are 1300-1500 rated(example)is a feeble excuse to dislike cond.moves.They are no different than non cond moves....just take your time and move again over the next few days like usual.If you feel that your opponent has "something up his sleeve"because of these conditional moves he sends you...well maybe he does!!!So what????Get over it!Its his right to give you 10,000 sleeves!And your right to return 10,000 sleeves!!!Kapish??? This is why I mentioned above...get over it!Cond.moves are here to stay.They have been around for centuries.No one said YOU have to use them,but you WILL receive them,especially if/when you move up the rating ladder. For the weaker players,let me add one more thing.In the opening,cond moves are very common.If you find yourself triggering cond moves in the opening,then there is a super high probability that an opening book database is being used.This is actually a good thing.It should send YOU a strong signal to look at the GK database or some other opening database,book or DVD.It all part of learning.To simply play random moves all the time and never use an opening database or never follow some past game opening moves you researched...is a sign that you will probably never get much better in your chess strength.Cond moves are NOT actually existing to annoy you,but to help IMPROVE your game.Its a signal that you should or must consult a database to see the best next move...and no this is not cheating.Nothing is set in stone that you should not consult an opening database simply because you are 1300 rated!!! Because you can look at the better next moves in that database,but still,do not have to play those moves.You can also see ahead and know what to expect from your opponent which can possibly give YOU an edge.You may want to(at the right timing)throw a monkey wrench into your opponents conditional move string or expected string and throw in an "out of book"move or some subtle 6.a3 move which was not in the normal opening.So cond moves can work both ways.Swaying from the stronger opening moves in a string of expected cond moves may not be good for 2200 and above players,but should not be a definitive disadvantageous ploy on the 1200-1800 levels IF your opponent is approx your own rating level.Swaying from an expected cond string is also a learning process,even if you lose. |
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#deeper_insight ~ Conditional Moves Why are conditionals so important to me? It's part of my psychological chess game. As a captain, I have many duties that I must perform for the team while I'm playing the Slow Ladder or a team game. When I play Black, I set up a conditional move before White has a chance to make move #1. And with a simple trick of mine, I manage to be 100% correct which throws my opponent off his game right from the start. I have being doing this since 1972 after Fisher took the crown away from Spassky. Setting up a conditional and walking away from the stage and arriving next morning minutes if not seconds before forfeiting time... What a suspense! If you don't like conditionals, don't accept my challenges. That will solve your problem! deeper_insight, keep on writing. You got talent! |
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Deeper Insight on Conditionals Quote: The "problem" is that the ones who dislike them will not use them... BUT they will still RECEIVE them,which DOES NOT "solve" their so called problem. No one sees any problem here. If you don't like them, don't use them--no problem. If you receive them, there still isn't any problem--even if you don't like receiving them. Some people don't like brussels sprouts. If you are served brussels sprouts at a dinner party, it is impolite to stand up and demand that no one at your table eat them. If you don't like them, just leave them on your plate. The polite thing is to nibble at them, unless you have some devastating allergy to brussels sprouts. But to fling your plate across the table and storm out of the room with screams about how bloody unfair life is--that really *is* rude and unacceptable. Plus, conditional moves aren't like brussels sprouts so much as they are like cherries jubilee. They are the loveliest part of the meal. If you cannot stand cherries jubilee, please don't deprive others of the enjoyment of them. And really--if you just tasted them you would probably find you liked them just fine. |
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deeper_insight 19-Jul-17, 12:59 |
Deleted by deeper_insight on 19-Jul-17, 13:28.
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deeper_insight 19-Jul-17, 13:28 |
I am,by the way,a retired Psychologist. Its more a subconscious thing,actually....these cond move "thingee's" The part about "receiving them which does not solve their problem"is technically true.You can stop using them,but not really stop receiving them,if the opponent is set on using them.The mindset of players(usually the much lesser rated ones,or those newer to corresp chess)varies.Some players do not want to receive them because it makes them: 1.Feel rushed 2.Feel like the opponent is somehow cheating 3.Playing too far ahead of them giving the user some kind of advantage,even if they really do not understand what advantage there could be,and there really is none in reality 4.Creating the conditional move user some kind of unfair superiority over the non user(something up the sleeve,as it was mentioned somewhere above). 4.Surfaces a form of non admitted laziness relative to the novice player who just wants to play a game with no surprises sent to them(a cond move trigger) and/or no real willingness to even take a look at an opening database when more of these "triggers"are sent to them in standard openings like a Ruy or QGD.No one has to look at opening databases(just my suggestion,especially in openings where more cond. move triggers tend to emanate) but just the "possibility" that some signal that a cond. string even exists,makes some players feel insecure and may give a shadow impression that the cond move receiver needs to awaken from his laziness and seek out some kind of external help with the 2 or 3 cond moves he just received,while he is sending none to his opponent.The inexperience cond move receiver tend to generate a false wall of fear that the sender is pushing an undue advantage weight over the non cond move user.Again,this is all a false generated fear,self induced. All of these "thoughts"are of course,as I mentioned,self inflicted and false based usually upon inexperience with online corresp chess. Again,it simply a psy.thing that many novice players(and a few strong players as well)develop and need to overcome with their false generated fears. The prescription to healthy thought pathways with conditionals?It was mentioned above by lord_shiva!Start tasting them with a smile and you may end up liking them!Maybe not at first!Try grilling them in the middle of your games(out of book).Try sending one or two with an obvious exchange move(s).A bit sour?Try some more 10 moves later!Wean yourself slowly away from your self induced fears of conditionals.It does not matter if you are 1300 or 2900 rated.Stop using your lower rating as your excuse!You are going to always receive them anyway...so make the best of them! knightemplar-1 above wrote..."If you don't like conditionals, don't accept my challenges. That will solve your problem!" Yes,that can be one "escape"for those who fear conditionals or dislike them in any way. However,that technically is only a "temporary"escape solution and will only temporarily solve your problem with perhaps that one game.It is not the true underlying solution to the fear or non comfort using or receiving them.Your going to get them throughout the years from many different opponents and their is no way to prevent them being used against you.Overcoming the fear or discomfort with cond's is not possible if you think that simply asking your opponent to not use them will solve anything...it won't.And not playing known cond move users(like knightemplar-1) is just a temporary escape and solves nothing in the long run. Conquer your demons. |
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Always Program Forced Mates Whether you hate conditionals or not, suppose the power goes out in your neighborhood for three days. Now you've lost a game you already had a solution to. Or maybe a day goes by and you forgot you won this game. Either way, your dislike of conditionals cost you the game. Always, always, always program forced mates as soon as you see them. While you are at it, if you check your opponent and he has only one or two choices and your response to those is obvious--program them in. Why waste time? You already know what he has to do and what your response must be. Program it! Exchanges--program them in too. Might as well, it isn't any big deal. Blunders? If your opponent might do something horribly stupid, program your response. If you're playing someone good and there is little chance of it, don't bother. But you might as well add conditionals for victory conditions if there is any possibility of achieving those. Last, but not least, program your openings. If your opponent always plays X, program X. Why waste time on openings you have already explored three moves deep? Program those moves. Next thing you know--you're into the mid game, where you want to be anyway. I know I'm only echoing what Deeper_Insight has already stated, but he is absolutely right. Chess isn't simply one move, it is two or three moves, sometimes more. My longest conditional was about six moves, most of them forced, whereby I gained a slight positional and/or material advantage. Awesome! Along the way, if you see anything else you think COULD be programmed, play with it to build your confidence and facility. Deeper_Insight makes excellent points regarding the exploration of the chess opening database, and programming opening conditionals creates familiarity with opening responses, as already mentioned. In conclusion, forced mates are an absolute must. Always program those. Always. Your opponent should not be given any opportunity to win a lost position by virtue of your own accidental time out--whether you were hit by a bus or kidnapped by terrorists or your neighbor's cat shorted out your apartment's electrical system just before you were to make your final move. Or your ISP mistakenly cancelled your service. Whatever. How is your neighbor's cat a part of chess? You have the power to prevent that and you should absolutely use it--your opponent would were the tables turned. Rest assured I WILL program everything that occurs to me--so savor it. |
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deeper_insight 19-Jul-17, 14:15 |
Thanks lord_shiva and let me also add a surprise.... gameknot.com Now read in this players profile(who is rated over 2400)near the bottom: "The only part of on line chess here at Game Knot that I dislike is the conditional move I feel conditional moves are a show of arrogance and not in keeping with spirit of the time perameters set a the start of the game. If you like to use the conditional move, I'd prefer we not play each other." UNQUOTE. This player,in my opinion needs that "weaning"as I mentioned above! Are conditional move usage a "show of arrogance"?Are they dissolving the "spirit" of the time parameters in the game? Answer:NO.But this player believes it.Did it stop me from playing this player?No way!In fact,we drew the game,but I used tons of cond moves against him.So his "wish"never came about,nor will it with other opponents of his...the cond moves will always rain in.So he best get use to it!  game And by the way,my true rating is higher than os5213.My new account does not show that yet,due to the smaller amount of games I have played to date.But if you want to know the real me,i'm TA with a 2500+ rating..... game It may take me a year or two to get up to 2500 again,but I just wanted to prove that I am no hogwash writer with little wisdom. So,as you can well imagine,my experience in corresp play is vast.Its interesting that a 2400+ players view(like os5213) can mirror a 1300 players view.But to each their own!I'm sure that lord-shiva will also agree that cond moves are NOT arrogant!I do not know if should laugh hysterically and turn blue,or just shake my head is disbelief.Funny,either way. |
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deeper_insight 19-Jul-17, 14:23 |
game My mistake. |
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deeper_insight 19-Jul-17, 14:57 |
one must "step back" and give yourself a "reality check test"! Here is the test: As with most other corresp chess sites,including the USCF and GK... would the administrators,founders,developers and all the other members who use conditionals and the developers who inserted them for usage be wrong to have included conditional move voluntary usage in all corresp play,especially if it is arrogant and NOT keeping with the normal time parameters? Think,think....THINK! Answer:Of course not!!!GK is a great and fair site for you,me,family,kids and more.To allow "arrogance"with us all,is of course one of those false ideals/fears I mentioned above. Conditional moves are as far removed from "arrogance"and moving outside the box of time parameters as the beach in Wildwood,NJ is as close to the Andromeda Galaxy!Far removed,believe me. Of course,at 2500+(old rating),what do I know? |
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