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kaseldop 03-Nov-23, 16:38 |
 winning on time with a bare king?i just lost at blitz |
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euro_pop_legend 03-Nov-23, 19:09 |
Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 03-Nov-23, 19:17.
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gameknot.com If so,the rules are clear and it was a legal win for black because you failed to mate him before the clock ran out(on your side).Your opponent probably had a few seconds left on his clock side.It does not state a time-out,but I assume that is what happened.It does not matter if your opponent had only a King.There was sufficient material on the board for white to win,but black timed you out for the win,even though he only had his lone King.If ever there is a question about a draw in blitz,just click on the draw button while the game is in progress and a list of possible draw scenarios will appear.Select one(or all of them) and see if the draw goes through. But in blitz,even a King vs a King and no other pieces on the board can give one player a win!! Why?Because if no one hits the draw select option to claim a draw,the clock keeps on running until one opponent times out for a win!!See?Technically,there are draw scenarios in chess like K+N vs K,but in blitz its different because you can time-out and still lose.And thats the name of the game in blitz. I time-out opponents all the time and sometimes just like your opponent did to you. With all that material you had left,a win should have been easy,that is if you know how to allocate your time better. TA |
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So one opponent MUST do it manually with that draw select option.Otherwise a win can be claimed after black or whites clock runs out,no matter what the board shows in material. But in your case,it was not a draw,but a loss for you because your clock ran out of gas. |
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euro_pop_legend 19-Jan-25, 06:36 |
Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 19-Jan-25, 06:40.
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The game ended in a draw with a "dead position".BUT only AFTER one of us hit the draw select buttons.In reality,if my opponent or myself left the board and did not come back,one of us could have conceivably timed-out and lost.At least that is my take on it.I am not 100% sure of that because it is a rare one for me,but I am assuming that it is conceivable to lose on one side even with K vs K,if no one selects draw and the clock is still ticking on one side.If anyone else had this happen and no one selected any draw option and both left the game board permantly with one of the opponents clock ticking away,I would be interested if the game ended in a draw or a loss WITH no one selecting those draw options.  game
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game I would love to see it.I know that I have done this in blitz,including K vs K/B or K vs K/N,which would be insufficient mating material and timed my opponent out and he lost the game,but again,I am not sure about the regular C.C. games on GK. |
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I also believe the rule book says that if you have winning chances against a lone K and your flag falls, it's a draw. I wonder how GK handles timeouts with KPvK? |
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Yes,the USCF is clear on these things.But not sure on GK.If no one hits the draw buttons and a player times-out before the other,even with insufficient material,will there be a win and loss? I actually never had this happen yet,so even I am unsure.To me its a moot point,for I am not sure I will even be playing anymore GK games again. I am however,in the GK blitz room quite frequently and have indeed,won on time with lack of mating material.Thats what 5/0 is all about.So,rules on GK may very well be different than the USCF.I am a life member of the USCF,but inactive there now since 1992. |
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Two players play an UNRATED game and go through these endgames and one purposly times-out with things like K vs K and/or K vs K/N....but NO one declares a draw,yet one player times-out. Does the player who did NOT time out end up winning or drawing because the GK system then TELLS HIM its a draw or win?I know that if no one declares a draw,the game keeps going,but then,if one times-out the game stops of course.Then what? In my OTB USCF games,yes,if one's flag drops game ends,but the draw must be written and if not,then the TD comes over and makes the decision.These things have never happened to me and perhaps I could go through the GK rules,but does the GK rules actually state that the GK computer will indeed label the game as a draw after no one hits the draw button,YET one player times-out? With a K vs a K/P thats different because the pawn may still be able to Queen. But K vs K(dead) or K vs K/N is a draw,I know but with the time-out on one side and no one claiming a draw can a win be claimed,thus rating points gained?Strange scenarios I know,but again,I have never gone through this,so even TA is not sure!I should know all of this,but I am getting old and forgetful! |
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K TO |
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Found Onegame |
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markb56 22-Jan-25, 00:13 |
Deleted by markb56 on 22-Jan-25, 00:15.
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Ouch, I believe in OTB if the TD sees the flag has fallen then the TD can declare the game ended, although the TD would award just a draw if the winning side had insufficient mating material. Having to declare timeouts would be an interesting feature to have here at GK: If your opponent timed-out then you could continue playing out of sportsmanship or in the spirit of the game. But on the other hand, if you declared the win then your opponent might be upset for not giving him a break. (I remember this being discussed here long ago and the decision was that it's better for GK to act as the TD and declare the game over so that there's no room for argument.) |
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Can anyone find a K vs K the same way with a point win due to a time-out? I am assuming the same scenario,however,even with a dead position? See then?Not the same as with USCF and FIDE.But then,I have not kept up with any rule changes on either the USCF or the FIDE.Been inactive with the USCF since the 1990's.Still a life member of the USCF and get that nice magazine yet,but that is it. @Mark....I am still here so far.Keep check. TA |
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No The reason for the automatic flag drop is because players may be in very different time zones. So each player gets the same number of hours no matter. |
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KQ vs K TO I was unaware of the material rule on OTB flag drops. Interesting. Sensible. Although that game is 14 years old I’m confident the insufficient material draw TO is not implemented. I wonder if it is on chess.com. My guess is not. When tutoring chess I like to have my students play me K vs. KRR, then K vs. KR. I feel those combinations build their appreciation of the game as they learn the power of the rook moves while getting a measure of victory under their belt. Quite a few 200+ move games are recorded on GK by sub 1200 players with 50+ K vs. KR end games. I try to get my students to visualize lines drawn by the rooks kings cannot cross. Then the king must be driven up against the wall to be slain. |
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Since I never had these things ever happen to me on GK,I never really gave these things any serious thought and I have been out of the OTB scene since 1990.My GK opponents have never timed-out under these circumstances with little material on the board,but with usually significant material left.And time-outs are much more rare on the 2400-2500 levels,else they would not be at those lofty levels very long. My K vs K game above(dead position)was the rarest I have ever had and any of my other opponents would have thrown in the draw towel much earlier in the game.Perhaps on the lower rating levels,that would have never happened,however.But how many games on GK can you find with a dead position and K vs K?I would wager it is rare.Most 2500+players do not even want to see that ending occur....so they usually agree to the draw.And that IS a fact. After waiting for a while,it was I that had to place the draw button,if I remember correctly! Who knows.With AI in the future,there might be a TD standing aside of the GK gameboard shouting out....draw,game over.And no confirmation will be necessary by either opponent. |
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GK Draw I’ve seen it in a number of lower games, and it is automatic. I’ve checked my own record (just now) and have no games drawn by insufficient material. But I know it is automatic, and why not? The alternative is that a player times out. It is senseless for two kings to stumble around ad infinitum squandering bandwidth and disk space. I know it isn’t kosher but just to preserve resources I would make my software check every fifty moves after 300 for both 50 and 3 rep draw conditions and automatically declare them. Have any master tournament games run 300 moves? 700 level players can go up to 300 moves absent interruption, but after that I’m drawing on 300, 350, 400, etc. if conditions were ever met. These games are just people playing games, not being serious. Chess doesn’t have to be serious, but thousand move games are just for the birds. That’s just me, GK has no such restriction. |
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Annotated Did not hear back so the message may not have been appreciated. And now I must search for SETI professors to lecture my astronomy club. Ciao! |
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TO Flag |
