GameKnot: GameKnot related, Cancelling postponements?

GameKnot related: Cancelling postponements?

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tactical_abyss
27-May-09, 15:46

Cancelling postponements?

I've recently had 2 opponents postpone their games for several days and then they decide to make a move or two during the postponements without cancelling their own postponement.
One of my opponents,who is rated very high on the rating list(higher than me)has actually done this about 3 times now.Under these circumstances,would it be proper etiquette to cancel those players postponements,or just let it go?I just want to know if alot of the players on GK would just let this slide,or they would automatically cancel the other players postponement or time-outs without giving it a second thought?

olean_don
27-May-09, 18:47

once I may let it slide. Other than that I would cancel

easy19
28-May-09, 00:18

On my vacation i postponed my games for about 10 days. As i was not sure that there was a Internet connection at my vacation adres. But at day 3 i found a Internet cafe in the hotel i stayed at that time so i made a few moves. there was 1 canceled postponement game and i was not happy with that. because the the days after i got no access

The postponement is a safeguard my game speed and my game history reflects that i am not postpone to stall games, and that even wen the game is postponed i try to keep moving.

you end up on my ignore list if my postponement is canceled

tactical_abyss
28-May-09, 01:33

I see then.Well there is a "mixed" feeling on this issue.Some players will cancel,others will not.
Its not a big deal to me,but I was just wondering.What about players that are NOT doing for the reasons of finding an internet connection,but just because they took on more than 100 games at one time and are postponing so that they can utilize the extra time to think out their moves and THEN make a move or two DURING that postponement?What about that?Would it be proper etiquette to cancel that kind of postponement?

levellerlevvie
28-May-09, 03:39

Well, I think you should never cancel postponements

Allthough some use it to stall games ... most have an honest reason for postponing games while still being able to play.

I for instance mostly have enough time to play around 30 to 40 games at once. But sometimes my work or private live takes more time and then 40 is too much, but like 15 to 20 isn't.
That's when I use a postponement of 2 days while still continue moving. It wouldn't be interesting for me to stop playing for 2 days, like some here at Gameknot find the proper thing to do, because after those 2 days I'm still very busy and I'm still stuck with too many games. But by playing some of them in those 2 days I manage to get everything under control.

Now why would someone cancel my postponement ... it wouldn't change the outcome of the game since the amount of time I think to play a move stays roughly the same. Everyone here at Gameknot has plenty of thinking time for a move anyway. What's the difference between 20 or 30 minutes of thinking about a move?

fmgaijin
28-May-09, 14:47

Some Do, Some Don't, So . ..

When I first started here, I tried to make moves during my postponements if I had time and net access, but I found that 90% of my opponents cancelled immediately when they got the opportunity (that is, when I had made 5 or more total moves). When that led to my only loss with White here (a timeout), I changed my ways. I no longer try to make moves while on postponement until I am actually back and ready to go. At that point, I usually cancel my postponements as I make my moves. Similarly, if an opponent returns and starts moving in all of his/her games, I will cancel that person's postponement unless the person has explained his/her situation and specifically asked me not to.

My biggest beef about postponements is that they do not work properly for "increment" games, so I generally wind up losing a lot of my accumulated time and in tournaments with 1 day increments that can be hard to recoup.

tactical_abyss
28-May-09, 17:04

I'm probably not going to cancel my opponents postponements,but I think it is quite unusual for one of my opponents to wait until almost timing out in many of his moves,THEN postponing for 5 or 6 days(in a 3 day per move game),moving 2 times during his postponement.....then starting the same cycle over and over again.He waits till almost timing out,then postpones again for 5 to 7 days,moves again during his postponement.This has been done,well,I lost count!I suppose thats why he has only made 22 moves in approx 6 months.
In reality,I believe this is not right.Postponements should be automatically cancelled under these type of circumstances.....and if not then any player that constantly does this should not be "shocked"into reality if I or some other player simply cancels his postponement.

levellerlevvie
29-May-09, 10:17

I always wonder ...

What's the gain in cancelling the postponement ... what's burning so hard that you must finish that game a few weeks quicker. What's the difference in completing a game in 4 months or 6 months.

I just don't understand. Why bother.

tactical_abyss
29-May-09, 11:01

Deleted by tactical_abyss on 29-May-09, 11:16.

olean_don
29-May-09, 11:30

I agree WOW

If you can move during a postponement, why are you postponing

tactical_abyss
29-May-09, 11:53

Well,first of all I said that I "probably" wouldn't cancel my opponents postponements,but he shouldn't be surprised if they do get postponed,whether eventually by me or someone else....thats #1.
#2....as i said above...."its not a big deal to me",so no,its NOT burning at me as you say,levellerlevvie.Infact,I as you can see by my original post I was simply getting some feedback and other opponents viewpoints.
As to the difference between 4 and 6 months,of course not if a difference is that little between a game finish.But don't kid yourself,habitual postponements and delays can lengthen a game much more than that!There is a reason for a player to post a 2 or 3 day time setting,and expect a certain level of timely play on these quicker time settings.If this was not the case,then lets all have 7-10 day settings with no other "options"....and see how that goes over like a lead balloon.
#3...More importantly,why should an opponent keep postponing a game,if he keeps playing DURING the postponement in the first place?For players that KEEP doing this,not once,not twice,but time after time,these players should then only accept games with much LONGER time controls,say 7 day time controls instead of accepting or posting a game with a 2 or 3 day setting....if they know that they will NOT have the "time" to play the quicker time controls.
Players that post a 2 or 3 day time control setting,do expect a certain "level" of timely etiquette with their opponents whether it be player against player,team or tournament level.....and not have habitual postponements due to stalling or other reasons.I'm sure most players on GK would agree with me here,but not everyone reads the forums!
Why bother you ask?
No,its more like,why does my opponent "bother" accepting a 2 or 3 day game,if its going to be habitual delays and stalling over and over again?Its the reverse,my friend!
If a player dosen't feel that they are going to have the time to move in a normal timely etiquette fashion in quicker established time settings of 2 or 3 days,then simply move on to the next player with 7 or more days per move time controls or post your own 7 to 14 day move game........and this way there will be no need to "postpone habitually",because the player should have all the time in the world to move....see?
The flip side of the coin is that some players set a game on 2 or 3 days for good reason,and also need to finish within a reasonable amt of time for a host of reasons.
So again I say,if your going to plan on habitual postponements,why accept a 2 or 3 day game?That makes no logical sense at all....simply only play longer time controls so no postponements on your opponent is necessary,or become the equivalent of a 5 or 6 day game with the stall tactic.....

tactical_abyss
29-May-09, 12:10

In conclusion to my statement above,let me add that its really not the "postponements"that i'm writing about in so much as the same player making moves during his postponements.Postponements are a necessary part of all correspondence play,I totally agree with that,but constantly moving during a postponement and then doing this over and over again,especially with a 2 or 3 day settings seems to me to be overextending the courtesy the postponement was intended for.If I owned the site I would probably set a limit on how many "occurrences" a player can move during a postponement,before it is "automatically"cancelled.

tactical_abyss
29-May-09, 12:39

Correction:On the first sentence on my second last forum post above,I said..."don't be surprised if they do get postponed.....
I meant to say don't be surprised if the postponement does get "cancelled".
Sorry,I haven't had my dinner yet!

luckypawn
29-May-09, 13:42

Recently

Recently, I postponed my games for 4 days. After that, I reinstated a game with an opponent against whom I had timed out. That game was 2 days per move, and the postponement days weren't added to it, so I had to make a move within 2 days. As this was only a 4 day postponement, it didn't endanger me into timing out in any of my other games, since I could make less than 5 moves within the 4 day period of my postponement, before my other opponents have a chance to cancel my postponement. But if I had postponed for a much longer period of time (such as my current, longer vacation flag) I would have been in something of a pickle, as I would have had to continue making moves in that game, and eventually give my opponents the oppurtunity to cancel my postponement.

But knowing that my opponents have the right to cancel my postponement, and might even feel indignant that I'm on and playing but won't play against them for another a while, I usually wouldn't play during my postponement unless I expect my opponent to cancel, as is their full right...and if they don't, I assume they're ok with my actions.

Usually, I would never play if my vacation flag is up, and I usually don't delete an opponent's flag, unless I suspect they're doing it to intentionally prolong the game (which rarely happens). Sometimes, when I come back to play before my vacation flag is over, I play without erasing it, out of curiousity to see if my opponents in general would cancel the postponements or just play on, and I've never had a postponement cancelled on me. I don't know if it's because they don't care either way, or because they also wonder if it's proper etiquette.

tactical_abyss
29-May-09, 15:09

Well,I agree with the things you are saying luckypawn,and it does seem that you are agreeing with many of the things I wrote as well.When write,I am writing objectively,not subjectively,so there is a big difference.Some players(perhaps most)will not cancel on a players postponement I think because of either bad Karma or like easy19 said above...."that you end up on my ignore list if postponment is cancelled".Then even if you are justified in cancelling,you may get blacklisted to some extent.Of course,his reasons for postponement are totally different than the players i'm speaking of who do it perpetually,and then constantly move again and again and then start the cycle over again and again.Now,this is not as "rare"as you may think.Perhaps not as much on GK,but it does happen.Usually it occurs with players that take on like,80-100 games and cannot handle the game loads with 2 or 3 day move limits.If an "automatic cancel"was set into the system after several moves were made without the player cancelling his own postponement,then i think that would create a better system whereas the other opponent could not get blamed, put on an ignore list or "disliked" in any way,since the first opponent simply took his "own"postponment away automatically.Makes sense?If not,I give up!

luckypawn
29-May-09, 15:39

hmm

Maybe it's not rare, but I don't notice because I usually have more games than I can handle myself Anyway, such a system would indeed be helpful to avoid anyone accusing anyone else of bad etiquette.

But at the same time, if someone wanted to have a vacation flag up as a precaution, but continue to play in all his games, and all his opponents were not only agreeable to his playing but perhaps happy that they don't have to wait for a month to play (one might wonder why he'd have the vacation flag up in the first place if he could play while on vacation; he might have internet access but limited....or he might have intervals of internet access and intervals without during the period in which he postponed....or a number of reasons)......one might wonder why he doesn't simply NOT play if he's not sure he'll have enough internet access.....but if he manages to postpone his games and move them on a bit at the same time, with opponents who are agreeable because it beats him not playing at all during the vacation period, then why not?.....But that option wouldn't be available if such a system were implemented.

I hope that makes sense, I don't know how to word it less awkwardly.

tactical_abyss
29-May-09, 16:03

Yes and no on that thought about the auto cancel.It will speed things up if he moves as you say,(for a few moves)but if it happens on a high frequency basis,with and without vacation flags the end results can be a much longer game anyway,which 2 day game opponents want to avoid in the first place.It may be like that old calculus problem.You have point "a" and point "b" and a person wants to walk to point b from point a.The distance between point "a" and point "b" is one mile.He walks one half the distance moving forward to point b,going one half a mile in forward distance exactly.He then pauses momentarily and continues walking forward to point "b" but this time he walks one half the distance he just went the first time,or a quarter mile moving forward at all times towards point "b".Pauses momentarily and moves forward in distance again towards point "b",going half the forward distance again or one half that distance(always moving forward).Till his steps are tip toe distance going forward.
Will this person ever reach point "b"?The answer is not as easy as you think!
Just some fun here,among this postponement chat.

levellerlevvie
30-May-09, 06:50

I can agree at some extend to the statement that people who keep on using the postponements to delay their games shouldn't accept that many games or accept games with longer time-intervals.

But the problem here at Gameknot is that some game-formats like Tournament and League have fixed time-controls of 2 and 3 days. Me for example likes those two formats but at the same time I'm stuck with the time-controls.

When I enter a mini-tournament or a challenge I make sure that I have much bigger time-controls but I just like playing those tournaments or league.

Well, all that I'm saying is that things mostly have an honourable reason, in this case postponing games somewhat more often than it seems necessary .. but everyone should think twice before simply cancelling because in most cases it's an emotional reaction based on false assumptions concerning the nature of the postponement.

Now everyone can think what he wants but I won't be changing my habit of postponing now and then to get those extra days in .. and if someone wants to cancel it ... no problem... I can handle it easily since I'm able to play a few moves each day so .. they don't hurt me.

If I timeout games it's because I don't find time to play .. not because someone has cancelled the postponement.

bchidester
22-Feb-19, 09:22

Postponing Strategy During Tournament?

I am experiencing a postponement during a tournament which I believe is used for a tactic and not out of "life" circumstances.

I'm not exactly sure what the strategy is, but this is what happened.

I have won 5/6 games in the tournament and guaranteed to move to next round. On the 6th game, I am up +3 in captures and just made a move that (at master level tournament) the opponent should resign because he would lose between a Rook and Queen based on blunders.

Hours before the deadline on his move puts in a 5 day delay. In the meantime, wraps up and wins a game against another opponent and makes moves in other games. The option came up to "Cancel Postponement" and I did.

Maybe the player wants me to miss my time and loose a game? Did he think he could delay until 98% of games were played in round and the analysis gives him a win with 3 pawns down? What was he thinking?

I figured if he had time to play other games, he had time for mine.

Opinions, ideas?

evader23
22-Feb-19, 15:22

Used to have a two move rule

I used to have a two move rule. If you postpone your games and make two moves in the game agaist me I would cancel it. I have since tossed that rule and rarely if ever will cancel a postponement. I look at it as more time for me as well I can study and make cond. moves and let it be and play other games.

I know there are people on here you use postponement for extra time rather than life coming up but that is ok. They have to move eventualy and when they do I am ready for them.

I have come to accept the fact that there are those in the tournements who deleibratly stall and those who are at the edge of rating limit get in the lower level and win those. That is just the way they work. There isn't much you can do but play your best.

Personaly I think 2 days per move is rushed as it is. I prefer 3 or 4 day games but if time permits I do enter those tournemnts.

I have yet to time out since coming back this time and last time I used a postpone ment was last September when in the hospital

amacivn
24-Feb-19, 07:12

I do get fed up really with players who wait for the emergency timeouts , I could go on and on with eg's but I wont
Players who go on line but never move
I think I would avoid these players if I could see when they timed out , I would avoid a player who continually times out , but I have to search his past results to find out when he last timed out ,
I don't think we should make excuses for poor players , as they might be analysing , they have no etiquette simple !

myrydin
24-Feb-19, 14:47

What is an emergency timeout?

myrydin
25-Feb-19, 03:51

Bchidester, my opinion is that GK make this option to cancel your opponents’ postponements available for you to use as you see fit. So all is good, it’s a matter of individual choice.

People have the right to use postponements, but in certain circumstances, they also have the right to cancel them.

amacivn
25-Feb-19, 08:34

Emergency timeout kicks in when you are running out of time , or emergency postponement,

Us Premium members can use it every 4 months I think , once a year for non-members ,
A good option , but open to abuse , extra time if something comes up , for people in the dark ages I.e no wifi access on the weekend you also get extra time over the weekend !

myrydin
05-Mar-19, 13:34

Ah, thanks for explaining. I wouldn’t worry about possible abuse of this facility. I know it’s theoretically possible, but with all of GK’s built in safeguards against abuse, the only person who would really be hurt is the abuser, as s/he will cut away their own safety net there for real emergencies.

amacivn
06-Mar-19, 06:29

Your right , whatever I say there could be a genuine reason ,it can be suspicious but it won't harm me in the end , and sometimes i still do ok !

Regards Neil

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