GameKnot: GameKnot related, Blitz rudeness

GameKnot related: Blitz rudeness

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marinvukusic
19-Jan-09, 15:53

Blitz rudeness

I wonder what is the reason behind extremely bad manners from UK and US players?

Is it some cultural thing?

Newest example (UK player):
- I have a clearly superior position
- Opponent offer a draw (happens VERY ofter with those players)
- Dialog:
Me: ?
Him: don't you understand DRAW
Me: why offer?
Him: RESIGN OR WIN ON TIME THEN
Me: ...

This happens every time I play at night (so I am playing with US players).

lighttotheright
19-Jan-09, 17:50

I am a US player and I would not act that way.

I've seen rude things from a lot of different areas of world. I don't think it is just a U.S. or U.K. thing.

I've had players offer me a draw in what looked like a superior position on my part. Upon deeper analysis a draw could have been forced, so I accepted instead of being rude about it.

kingdawar
19-Jan-09, 22:16

UK & US people simply form the majority of the players here so a few of them acting rudely does not reflect on the rest of the people from there, of course. I am suspecting though that this certain player would have had a 1200 rating with 1 or 2 timed-out games played...?

chessnovice
20-Jan-09, 00:58

...

Heinzkat is right. The main reason you find this happening with US and UK players is because this site is largely composed of US and UK players. Hard to say why the people are being rude, since I'm sure everyone has their own individual reasons. Most of the time it comes across as an insecurity thing, since many of these players probably understand that winning is not an everyday occurrence for them and must be something to glorify. That kind of behavior is universal... you might even find it in some people you play from Croatia.

Given the options that your UK opponent gave, I would inform him that I intend to win on time.

marinvukusic
20-Jan-09, 14:10

Thanks for the answers

Sorry I didn't answer back sooner, real life issues

I am not sure... people all over the world play Blitz here but every time someone is problematic it is always US/UK and the scenario is always the same, like bad sportmanship is actually a systemic thing that is being taught to them (this is why I suspected this is a cultural thing).
Repeatedly offering draws in clearly losing positions is common practice, as well as abandoning the game until their time expires so the opponent has to resign if he wants to move on. Not to mention insulting a far superior player just because he is winning (this is like I would go around insulting IMs, completely unthinkable).

I agree in general that this might be a statistical thing after all (although I am not convinced), for example on Playchess Germans are usually the worst due to sheer numbers, but other nations also have their representatives in bad manner category there so on average that is that.

chessnovice - Well I am usually watching TV while playing Blitz so this is exactly what I always do I am in no hurry at all, ever.
This might be petty on my part but I just don't want to give them any satisfaction (this reinforces problematic behavior, as any animal trainer will tell you), and besides I am a cool customer most of the time anyway.

marinvukusic
20-Jan-09, 14:14

heinzkat

Actually not in all cases, sometimes they are regular players with a lot of games played.

My Ignore list has some of them (the worst cases) but unfortunately it is not integrated with Blitz application

myrydin
20-Jan-09, 14:59

To make sweeping generalisations based on nationality is in itself rudeness.

marinvukusic
20-Jan-09, 16:12

Don't think so

You think that there are no cultural differences between nations?
I have been around (including 5 months living in USA) and I assure you that there are - and quite obvious ones, even within one nation.

I will give you a fresh example:

Just today I have been discussing this with one person from India who is my opponent in a war-type game we play online (and will probably crush me like a bug if he decides it is necessary). Despite the fact we are literally mortal enemies in the game the conversation is polite from both sides.

My experiences with people from India (chess players too but not exclusively) are invariably positive and he mentioned exactly their different culture regarding politeness when I mentioned it ("yes the culture here is totally different from Europe and US").

paranoidyoshi
20-Jan-09, 18:03

As a Californian...

The culture is completely different here. Chess isn't a game of moving pieces, it's a game of psychological
warfare, and people are rude here over the board, not just in blitz (and my high school's chess club could
definitely attest to that!).

I think one major cultural difference is that people here take serious insults as jokes, and so profanities and
slurs reign amok. Just watch South Park.

lighttotheright
21-Jan-09, 02:24

It's not a cultural thing. It is a generational thing. I am seeing a lot of this type of "rude" behavior is somehow "cool" creep in from younger people lately. It is not universal; and it not just in the U.S. or U.K. I've seen it from many different countries including Asian ones. There are many of those that still act respectfully. In fact, the majority are still respectful.

I still think Marin is taking a few experiences and trying to apply it to the whole. It's stereotyping. That is not intend to be negatively directed against you, Marin. Everyone does that to one extent or another. It's normal human behavior to do so. The question is whether we recognize it as fair or not.

Let's face it. Anybody that likes to play blitz on a broken section of what is generally considered a good correspondence site is not going to be the norm. Perceptions in such an arena will automatically be skewed. Your average American is not going to play blitz on GK.

farhadshawkat
21-Jan-09, 10:55

I would definitely say it's statistical. There is a very high proportion of US/UK players here on GK, and so any list of rude players would consist of mostly players from these countries. However, I prefer to view things differently. Most of the friendlier opponents that I have faced here on GK are from USA and UK too. So it goes both ways. I have lived in both countries for several years, and have absolutely no complaints. If anything, Americans are probably the friendliest people that I have met.

To a certain extent cultural differences could be an issue, as what's considered to be a relatively harmless joke or comment in one country could be considered to be quite offensive in another. I have felt offended twice here on GK, and on both occasions I talked to the person, and realised that I was mistaken. The problem with the written word, like a letter or an email or a forum post, is that it's difficult to judge the tone of the person, so the exact same words could be perfectly harmless, or quite offensive.

The experience that you are referring to, well, the guy was just an idiot. Ignore him and move on, don't judge a country of 50 million or 250 million people based on a few. For every idiot that you meet online, there will be a lot of genuinely nice people too, who will make the experience worthwhile.

Farhad

pgroenborg
21-Jan-09, 12:17

Maybe it could be...

both cultural, generational AND statistical. One does not rule out the other or the third.

Paranoid yoshi gave evidence to the first two and I strongly believe in the third.

It is good to know that Farhad exists for his reasoning is amicable and well founded.

And I think that Marin knows of course that not EACH AND EVERY PERSON from the mentioned countries are idiots. Naturally. No such nation exists.

I don't think it is going there, however I couldn't help but thinking "oh, no, now we're going to relive the social chat all over again. Like I said, I don't think that is where this debate is heading, but the thouhgt was there.

You know what? In fact we are all idiots, it is only a question of the point of view and the place in time and space, if you catch my drift. I know that I am one form time to time, probably even now?
Biggest smil ever for you all
Cheers Peter

marinvukusic
21-Jan-09, 14:04

Let me clarify

I never said that all US and UK players are rude.

What I meant is that every time someone is being rude and I go take a look at the profile it turns out to be US/UK player. Since it happens regularly (every time I play at least on one occasion) I was curious about the reason. Especially since the modus operandi is always the same.

Fresh example (5 minutes old):

I am White, the game goes:
1. e4, e5; 2.Nf3, f6?!; 3.Ne5, fe5 (3...Qe7 is better here); 4. Qh5, Ke7; 5. Qe5, Kg6??; 6. Qf5

All this was played very fast. Then Black abandons game (I am naturally watching TV so I wait), returns after 6 minutes and only then resigns.

I go and check the profile (in order to firmly place him in my Ignore list), sure enough Black is a US player. In this case as heinzkat suggested he is on provisional rating.

marinvukusic
21-Jan-09, 14:10

Correction (wrong notation)

Correct moves are 5.Qe5, Kf7; 6.Bc4, Kg6?? (6...d5 is only move); 7.Qf5

marinvukusic
21-Jan-09, 14:28

Another fresh example

I am Black playing the Sicilian, White plays rather passively and very soon has to defend against pressure. Unfortunately for him when given the choice to lose a Bishop or the Queen he chooses wrong and drops the Queen.

Immediately after that he abandons the game and we both wait for 7 minutes until he times out.

US player, 32 years old, 243 games played, 10 annotated games, 23 contributions to the puzzle section.

paranoidyoshi
21-Jan-09, 16:30

Possible solution

Since many of the blitz players are provisional, here's my way of remedying this situation: restrict blitz
chess to those who have finished at least 20 games, and have games open. As to your last example, Marin,
I have no idea how to solve that.

Since GK blitz has been in beta since I joined, I usually just play blitz on Yahoo Chess. However, they're
much, much ruder there.

marinvukusic
21-Jan-09, 17:12

Reason why I play Blitz here - attn. lighttotheright :)

When I want to play true hardcore Blitz I use Playchess and there I play games with 1 minute + 3 seconds/move time control. This would be cruel to players here and that time control has no place on a correspondence chess Website.

But sometimes I am just bored while doing something else (usually watching something on TV that does not require 100% attention) and playing a casual chess game on the side is a good solution.

Blitz on GK is 10 minutes/game which I find perfect although the application has bugs and lacks basic features (rematch etc.). Occasionally I stumble across pretty decent players but since there is no rematch it is impossible to establish regular playing partners.

The big problem is that there is no Ignore/Buddy list for Blitz - although there are a lot of problematic people on Playchess the Ignore list solves the problem.

tactical_abyss
21-Jan-09, 18:34

You will always find bad comments by players on any blitz site.I'm a USA player and I have found most bad comments coming from Australia!But I never let it bother me.Infact,from experience,I usually pull up the bottom portion of my screen to cover the comment section,so i do not see anything,even if they are saying a nice "hi!"By not responding,most opponents just think i can't speak english,so they give up.I don't have time to chat in a blitz game.Alot of players actually want you to chat so that you draw your clock down!
On other sites I turn the chat off....something that would be a good option for blitz on this site.
One important thing.You will see alot more bad comments in the blitz room than in your regular long game message center mainly because the comments are saved and cannot be erased.Your opponents know this,so they refrain from sending you a message in your message center just incase you complain.But in the blitz room,unless you write down the game # and other facts with the time,then your opponent knows that they will probably get away with rude remarks...and usually most players do not bother to write these things down....thus the remarks will always continue.One thing for sure...never make a rude remark back to a player,even if you feel he deserves it for what they said to you.Just complain to the site administrators,otherwise your blitz priviledges could be revoked too.

lighttotheright
21-Jan-09, 19:06

Somebody mentioned Yahoo players are rude. I agree. That's one reason that I stopped playing there, even though I was undefeated at the time. People were rude no matter what country they were from.

And yes, they would constantly chat to simply try to run your clock down. I beat the pants off of one guy that complained constantly that I actually played too slow. But there was absolutely no down time on my part. I literally was picking up the piece for my expected next move and waiting for his move so that I could immediately drop it and play within milliseconds. He still complained that I was too slow. Perhaps it was a poor connection, but I don't think so. Although he seemed to be playing fast too, it still seemed slower than I was from my perspective.

Perhaps he thought he was being funny; but it was really annoying and stupid.

tactical_abyss
22-Jan-09, 00:22

he probably was trying to slow you down by being annoying so that you either take the time to write him back and waste clock time or get you frusturated enough to affect your game.In the 40 yrs that i have been playing chess,i've seen all the tricks!I've seen players that have multiple accounts use one of their accounts to annoy people in blitz rooms for various reasons and sometimes the actual "victim" gets suspended and not the perpetrator!This happens when the "victim"finally breaks and perhaps starts sending bad messages back to the one who started it in the others mail box.This is what i mean by not letting this psychological warfare affect you or any other player on the site.All of this again could be avoided by a controlled optional "chat off"control to select players,but of course,they do not have this as an option...atleast not yet,

chessnovice
22-Jan-09, 01:37

...

Who's to say that the guy didn't spend 6 minutes trying to find a way out of his bad position? I'm rusty at blitz, and it seems like something I'd be prone to doing.

marinvukusic
22-Jan-09, 05:39

chessnovice

Look at the game notation again and the answer should be fairly obvious he only has one legal move.

marinvukusic
22-Jan-09, 05:49

Turning the chat off

I would not use that solution, 10 minutes/game allows for some chatting and there are some players that like to comment politely on their current game.

I usually say "well played" if the game was interesting and of course sometimes comment on some moves that were played in the game.

chessnovice
22-Jan-09, 08:17

...

That makes sense. I didn't see that it was the Fred.

kingdawar
22-Jan-09, 08:19

The Damiano defense actually, right. 1. e4 f5?! is the Fred.

tactical_abyss
22-Jan-09, 10:15

What i meant by the chat off feature is only for rude players,so you do not have to "see"their comments.After a while one gets to know who is a rude player or in other situations who "blabs" too too much.Some players will leave the game simply because you do not continue to respond to them.Like....how old are you,are you male or female,what are your hobbies...ect ect.This kind of chat is meant for the messaging center...NOT the blitz game!Plus,many players are not interested in talking in 10 minute games...so it should NOT be considered rude if a player does NOT want to chat and accordingly the other opponent should respect that.So...this is where I sometimes raise the bottom of my screen to block out comments.Nothing wrong with saying Hi or GG...but nothing wrong with NOT doing that either. If we ever go to 5 minute games the situation becomes even more a factor of chat or not to chat.I for one use all my concentration to play anywhere between a 3 minute game and a 10 minute game.If you want to chat with me...message me later!Making comments of "well played" is fine...but i'm talking more about the intensive long gab,not a word or 2.
Some players expect lengthy conversations during a blitz game...and this in my opinion is somewhat rude,especially if they quit the game because I won't talk to them!

kurushi
22-Jan-09, 11:25

Deleted by kurushi on 22-Jan-09, 11:26.

kurushi
22-Jan-09, 11:26

I agree that there is a lot of rudeness on blitz, I myself have been insulted for taking too long to make a move. However, I think your identification of it being UK/US players is rude in itself. You ignore that there are more UK/US players here and therefore are more identifiable as a majority. You then flame a poster (tim_b) for suggesting that YOU are being rude and proceed to imply that rudeness is a characteristic of UK/US culture.

rich_sposato
22-Jan-09, 20:15

I found one player who was extremely rude. He was so rude, I put him on my ignore list. His username is m3j3m.

For what it is worth, I've had many polite conversations with both UK and US players. I've also had polite conversations with players from all over the world. I've also seen rudeness from people of many lands.

Also, just because somebody's profile says they are from the US does not mean they really are. If somebody is going to be that rude, they would likely lie and say they are from anywhere.

Could we have a new policy saying that if somebody receives too many complaints for rudeness, the person gets booted off the website?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Rich

chessnovice
23-Jan-09, 05:51

heinzkat

I guess I have to brush up on opening names. :[

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