GameKnot: Chess related, bird's opening

Chess related: bird's opening

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woodpusher2
06-Apr-09, 21:43

bird's opening

i have recently tried bird's opening and i like the attacking potential but notice that my queen's bishop is hard to develop. how and when should you develop the bishop? fianchetto? early or mid-game?

greenrat777
06-Apr-09, 23:58

birds opening

you might want to try typing in henry bird chessgames.com on your home page . he has 91 one games where he played birds opening from the white side of the board .

baronderkilt
08-Apr-09, 09:42

It depends ....

on how you want to play things. There are three separate main strategies that might be adopted. Two involve control of e5. One does it be placing pawns on c3,d4,e3,&f4. While this would be good to know as an option to your Bird's Opening, and is basically a color reversed Stonewall Dutch, it has its own identity as being the "Stonewall Attack". It can generate some nice attacks vs the unversed, particularly against h7 or f7, using several approaches from Rook lifts & Bh7+ sacs to an all out pawn roller. This is doubtless the variant where developing the QB well is always the hardest and least likely. But that piece generally does little in the attacks that develop, and most often just needs to "get out of the way" so as to bring the QR into play; tho the Bishop might be moved to the K-side via Bd2, Be1, etc.
***
In an actual Bird's Opening, the traditional strategy also involves control of e5 by playing b3 and Bb2 fianchetto of the QB, in conjunction with f4 and Nf3. Besides games of the Bird's using this, similar set up as Black would be the "Dory Defense". When to perform the fianchetto? Ideally it should be in time to prevent your opponent from being able to push ...e5, and in time to support your occupation of that square with Ne5.
***
The final approach will most resemble what is called the "Modern Dutch" when played as Black. Tho with white there are more resources available to the player. This variant has been pioneered by IM of correspondence Chess Keith Hayward, and contributed toward his gaining of his IM title. He also published an excellent monogram on it in the A.P.C.T Newsletter some years ago. And perhaps might be found elsewhere, tho I cannot say for certain. However, there will be many of his games available online for review by a student of the Bird's.
His approach seeks to play e4 as WT. And the QB developed at Bd2. In this setup there are pawns on d3,e3,&f4 at first. The remainder being on the second rank while preparing the e4 push. The pieces go to Nc3,Bd2,Be2,Nf3,Qe1,O-O and there are interesting nuances such as a potential Bd1 move in defense of c2 if needed, and other resources.
***
I found the Bird's quite entertaining and interesting in the short time I was playing it in Postal Chess. On of the most interesting aspects to me was that we learn the way to counter a wing attack is either counter-attack on the opposite wing, or even better to strike a blow in the center ... and for that reason it is usually wise to commence wing attack only where the center has been fixed in place, and not one of mobile pawns ... yet in Bird's this is often not true. Often WT may proceed to initiate a wing attack vs the ...o-o position of BL and find that BL cannot generate sufficient counter-play on the Q-wing with a ...d5...c5 type position, nor in the center by pushing d5-d4 or opening the d-file. And the main counter stroke for WT to heed is if BL can get in his own push to ...e5. Yet this is the very thing that WT has usually played to prevent.
{Because of this oddity in its strategic nature, it becomes and excellent tool for scoring points vs lower rated opposition. Yet Hayward was also successful with it in Master play, despite describing it as second rate as an opening. It proved good enough if one plays it good enough.}
That is one reason that playing against the Bird's I found the Fromm's Gambit 1. f4 e5 to be the most satisfying response, as many players seem to favor. Indeed Hayward himself recommended handling that transposing into a King's Gambit. Such as 2.e4 does. So Fromm's must be reckoned with as something you will definitely encounter playing Bird's. IMO it is BL's most energetic response.
***
}8-)

archduke_piccolo
08-Apr-09, 13:18

What an informative response!

Craig: you tempt me strangely. My rare attempts at the Bird's in the past has been attended by very little success. Maybe I ought to give the line another look!
Cheers,
Ion

tactical_abyss
12-Apr-09, 20:42

While rarely played in tourneys with stronger players(especially OTB tourneys),actually the Birds Opening has excellent suprise value and black has very little difficulties in equalizing...with proper care and response.Dark square control is,of course,
is the usual strategy.1.....d5 (Dutch Def.as mentioned above).
My view is somewhat different,however regarding the Kings Gambit transposition,with 2.e4.
This leads to tactical positions if the gambit is "accepted",which alot of players may wish to avoid.
Safer and more modern theory revolves around controlling e5 with d6,thus minimizing risk.
An example line would be:

1.f4,c5
2.Nf3,Nf6
3.e3,g6
4.b3,Bg7
5.Bb2,0-0
6.Be2,Nc6
7.0-0,d6
8.a4,a6 and at this point the game is very equalized,since it is more conservative than
7.....d5 and gets rid of any problem with the e5 square for black resulting in equal
chances.

also on move#1. black can play transpositional closed Sicilian or Pirc defense
by initiating the moves 1......Nf6 or 1......g6 or 1.....d6

I would strongly recommend,however,as mentioned to me by FM Dunne and
reading various footnotes by GM Firmian,that controlling the e5 square by using the
line above or similar line is better than the Kings Gambit Transposition,but if your
totally confortable with the K.Gambit,by all means use it.

loreta
16-Apr-09, 22:02

Bird vs .... Bird?

I play (as answer to 1. f4) .... 1. .... f5
Surprise vs surprise

euro_pop_legend
14-Jan-25, 15:40

Its interesting to note that both the Bird and the Grob(especially the Grob)was extremely popular with postal chess back in the day.There are(were) huge groups of chess players dedicated to the Grob.As AI states about the Grob: "Rarely used by masters, the Grob is still relatively common among club players. Although not as reputable as other openings, the Grob can be very dangerous against unprepared players. Especially effective in blitz and bullet games, this opening can lead to quick wins for White". True,I used the Bird and Grob many times in Postal and blitz.But in regular OTB and GK C.C.....no,unless unrated,then I do not care.

As to the Bird,lets see what AI says:

"although it can still be a viable option for club-level players due to its aggressive nature and potential to surprise opponents; even elite players like Magnus Carlsen may occasionally play it as a surprise move".

RIP Craig...your posts are still remembered by me.

TA

euro_pop_legend
22-Jan-25, 10:57

Just a quick analysis with 1.f4,f5

Not the way I would play black on move #1 as Loreta above.
My response would be 1....d5.
However,from my best opening book and with both Komodo and Stockfish on
a 1.f4,f5 Bird opening defense,Lets see what I have gotten.Now this is just one
variation,however,others I tried only went to move 7(in book) and this one goes a bit
further to move #10:

1.f4,f5
2.e3,e6
3.b3,Nf6
4.Bb2,Be7
5.Nf3,b6
6.c4,Bb7
7.Nc3,c5
8.Be2,Nc6
9.0-0,0-0
10.d4

Interesting enough,my book runs out of book by move #10 with 10.d4
And I restricted the moves to "tournament book" which uses less variety of play
After that,the game is almost equal with =0.05 for white which is negligible.
So,it is ok to use 1....f5 if seeking a draw,even against some stronger opponents.

Now a different analysis going out of tournament book mode where the variey of play is much greater.Lets see my results:

1.f4,f5
2.Nf3,Nf6
3.e3,e6
4.b3,d5
5.Bb2,Be7
6.Nc3,0-0
7.Be2
Then my book stops,even though you would think it would be longer.
In the second example,now black has a microscopic edge of...-0.02
per that position.Again,about equal.

So,whether the Bird opening is played on the GM levels or not,it is,in my opinion NOT
a weak or bad opening for white and whether black plays 1....f5 or even 1...d5(my choice)
creates equality according to my deeper book analysis.But of course,things can change instantly
if someone is NOT using an opening book and playing freehand from move #2,depending
upon ones rating strength.I have no idea what GK's opening book would suggest or how
long it takes to go out of book,but I doubt that GK's book would be an improvement over
those two examples above.

TA

euro_pop_legend
22-Jan-25, 11:06

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 22-Jan-25, 11:39.

euro_pop_legend
22-Jan-25, 11:39

Above,
Keep in mind that "irregular games" like the Bird,especially with little or no transpostion,will almost always "go out of book"much sooner than,for example,a Ruy Lopez game.
In a Ruy,my book can and will go to nearly 50 moves,no matter what you do,unless it is such a weak move like a "Na3" in the early opening.That is another "trick"to fool the books,but I am not here to discuss that!I do not want to tell you all my secrets!

And above,I forgot to mention that 1.f4,d5 instead of 1.f4,f5 generally turns the Bird into a
Dutch Defense Reversed.All good.Not the best,but ok.Would I play the Bird?In blitz yes as a surprise weapon.In regular C.C? No,not that I would feel scared of it on either side of the board,but my "winning chances"are not as good as with other mainline openings.Just like the Petrov's Defense.Its one of the most drawish opening defenses one can play,if played properly.The mirror moves almost always create pure equality.If I was going to play a real GM,I would opt for a Petrov,for if I had a prayer of drawing with him,the Petrov would be the best choice...in my opinion.

Best,
TA

resol_bojateg
23-Oct-25, 15:57

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 06:15

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 07:22.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 07:22

Just a few more notes on the Bird:

I like or should I say tolerate the Bird and promoted the Bird for at least lesser rated players above giving details about the Bird and gave one illustration of equalization.On page 732 of MCO-15, GM Firmian states..."there is nothing wrong with whites unusual strategy of dark square control,and surprise value should count for something".After reading that years ago,I took it upon myself to explore many lines and subvariant lives of the Birds Opening.In blitz it can be a devastating opening for those who are NOT prepared for an opening that can indeed,move out of book relatively quickly.No,its not a solid or sound opening like the Ruy,but as Firmian states it does have surprise value.I even used the Bird in many of my old Postal chess games of the 1980's and 1990's.Its simply not played on the GM levels much due to its lack of initiative and stats on higher win probabilities.But for lesser rated players and even in blitz,it has merit.As to the "theory of chess",it is EXACTLY the "theory of chess" that explains WHY the Bird can equalize as I alluded to above.So no,the "Bird" has NOTHING to do with those who...

"do not like the theory of chess"as stated above by a poster.That is an incorrect statement.I play the Bird and LOVE the theory of chess.So that "rash"statement does NOT apply to me and many others on GK.Let this be clear.

And NO, its dead WRONG to state above by another poster that chess theory is...."very boring an waste time unless magnus carlsen." Chess theory,point value flux,subvariational analysis,edge pawn evaluations and much more covers the deeper aspects OF chess theory...as I have many times explained in my chess theory club here: gameknot.com No ches theory is not for everyone and other things must be studied first,but after say approximately having an "A"rating of approx 1800-1999 and experts starting around 2000-2199,then these players should start to consult many deeper aspects of chess theory that can solve many issues with the Bird Opening and others.

Those who do not want to get involved in the deeper aspects of chess theory,well that is up to them.But to state its a waste of time or boring to "them"is just that....only to "them"(like above)....NOT the millions of other chess players that prefer to study the finer salient points of chess theory to improve.

As to the sodium attack (which I explained in detail in my old club)and have MANY games that can be checked in my old club....that is OFF topic and NOT related to the theme of this thread started by woodpusher2,greenrat777,baronderkilt,Arch and myself as tactical abyss.So,its always best to not start chatting about a sodium game in a Bird theme topic.This can then lead to the theme going off topic even further.I only mentioned the sodium game in this paragraph to tell others NOT what to post in a Birds Post and a Birds theme.

In summary,chess theory is NOT boring and NOT a waste of time as mentioned above,
nor is it "just"for Magnus Carlsen.Again,that is a highly incorrect way to look at things.

In fact,chess theory can be VERY exciting to those who DO NOT have "closed minds".Not everyone on GK is here to "just have fun" and play.There are those players who want to be more serious and actually improve their game play by analyzing chess theory,Hiarcs and more.Others,push it aside as a waste.Well,that is their opinion,not mine and not most of my friends on GK that has given me kudos for YEARS about chess theory training and more.
I usually do not chat with closed minds,so I almost never respond to those who make highly inaccurate impulsive statements with words like "waste of time" and only for "Magnus Carlsen".

Best,
TA

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 08:34

Also...

staying in theme with the Bird Opening....

Hiarcs opening book has some very fine analysis with stats regarding the Bird Opening.
It will list the draw/win and loss stats along with subvariant lines with a compilation of thousands of games played by GM's,masters and experts.Hiarcs is updated every 3 months,so it makes it much more superior than GK's opening book.Those who want to really improve their game should download Hiarcs into their GUI and explore.Again,this all boils down under the umbrella of "chess theory".You may be surprised at what you discover.And how important is a superior opening book?Answer: BIG time!This goes for the Bird in particular,since many inferior opening books do not have as many variant lines embedded as other opening books have.There is a big difference in quality.

Many of my chess friends have found some interesting lines that they never even dreamed of,even with the Bird Opening.

Now some here on GK I have read,particularly one person on GK will also call Hiarcs a waste of time and more.Please future readers,never,NEVER listen to these critics,for they will "spiral you down"with negativity that is not deserved or advised to read.

Best,
TA

resol_bojateg
27-Feb-26, 14:49

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 17:19

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 17:23.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 17:23

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 18:47.

resol_bojateg
27-Feb-26, 17:42

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 17:47

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 17:51.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 17:51

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 18:47.

resol_bojateg
27-Feb-26, 17:57

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 17:59

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 18:47.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 18:01

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 18:47.

resol_bojateg
27-Feb-26, 18:02

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 18:04

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 18:48.

resol_bojateg
27-Feb-26, 18:07

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 18:08

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 18:48.

resol_bojateg
27-Feb-26, 18:09

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

euro_pop_legend
27-Feb-26, 18:10

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 27-Feb-26, 18:48.

resol_bojateg
27-Feb-26, 18:12

Deleted by Gameknot.com on 06-Mar-26, 15:05.

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