GameKnot: Chess related, Promotion help

Chess related: Promotion help

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fredburger0
05-Jun-09, 13:27

Promotion help

Hey I just promoted a pawn to a queen and then a rook took that promoted queen. Wouldn't i only lose one
point because the points don't change when a pawn is promoted?

blake78613
05-Jun-09, 13:49

points are only a guide to help you evaluate your position. I would probably rate a passed pawn on the 7th as being worth more than one point, but would really need to see the position to make a judgment.

archduke_piccolo
05-Jun-09, 15:32

blake78613 is correct...

... in pointing out that points values are only a guide to evaluation of position. At that, they aren't always reliable, especially late in the game, but also when tactics come into consideration. The endgame is very notable for changing relative values. Often the location of the kings is sufficient to devalue or revalue a piece or pawn.

Before launching into chapter and verse, though, I assume really the question has more to do with the way GK administers each game, in particular the material situation based on both sides' losses. Now there, I would have anticipated that the capture of a "promoted" queen would constitute the loss of a pawn from the point of view of material situation (as opposed to "losses to date", say). This is where maybe the system falls down, rather. The material situation ought to be given by what remains on the board. But how is that to be done?

The situation might not be susceptible to an easy solution. Consider this situation (from one of my own games):

w
In this wild situation, White hopes to "teleport" his Q to a8:
28.bxa6 Nxg3
29.a7 Nxf1
30.a8=Q+ ...
Now, White's net loss has been a pawn, but no pawn was captured. How ought this be shown? White certainly has lost a whole queen more than Black has, but that does not accurately show the material situation. The material situation is near enough to dead even in fact (the difference being B for N), the promotion having largely compensated for the loss.

Of course, the sapient reader will have spotted that all that's academic anyway. In the situation thus reached, level material notwithstanding, White is quite lost. In fact, after -
30...Ke7
White resigned. He has to lose his Queen at least...

fredburger0
06-Jun-09, 13:36

I understand that points don't really matter... U could be down 15 points but still have better position than
your opponents. This is an issue that came in one of my games and I didn't understand why it wouldn't just
count as a loss of one point. It makes no sense that you would have to change the points if you promoted a
pawn.

yusuf_prasojo
06-Jun-09, 15:15

I don't understand your point but...

If you have a pawn (value=1), and promote it into a knight (value=3), then you have a point increase of 3-1=2, because you loose the pawn but get the new knight. If the knight (value=3) is taken then your point is decreased into 2-3=-1

So in the case of pawn promotion into a queen, you loose the pawn (-1) and have a new queen (+9) so your relative point is +8. IF the queen is taken (-9) then your relative point is +8-9=-1

So you're right that you loose only one point. But, the points DO change when a pawn is promoted.

ganstaman
07-Jun-09, 10:30

I think what he means is that the counter of 'points' on gameknot below the board shows something different than he expects. If so, this is really a gameknot issue and not a chess issue.

When you work it yourself, you should count what's on the board and not what was taken off the board.

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