GameKnot: Chess related, Global chess cheating scandal!

Chess related: Global chess cheating scandal!

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jett22
22-Oct-22, 07:54

Global chess cheating scandal!

I'm sure most of you are aware of the cheating scandal in chess. Well, the accused has now filed a lawsuit against Chess.com and Magnus. On my!
www.washingtonpost.com
Yep, taken from GK homepage; putting it here for discussion.

myrydin
26-Oct-22, 12:02

In the UK, if you make an allegedly defamatory statement about someone, the burden of proof is reversed and it falls to the person making the statement to prove that the statement is true. I don’t know about US law. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

euro_pop_legend
26-Oct-22, 13:48

Deleted by euro_pop_legend on 26-Oct-22, 13:49.

euro_pop_legend
26-Oct-22, 13:49

My guess(just a feeling)is that Niemann did indeed cheat with Magnus as he admitted to previously with others from an earlier age with online games.Repeating such wrong things is a strong human temptation,especially in light of the limelight of fame with Magnus that he would gain.Again,just a gut feeling of mine.But proving it,I would surmise,is a whole different thing,indeed.Just because a computer overlay can be crosschecked with any specific move
or even series of moves does not conclusively prove anything,especially on GM rating levels.
So,its is a double hypocrisy to sue anyone,but I think that Niemann knows that and feels
that he has nothing to lose by suing,even being guilty!I would actually love to see Niemann
lose in court and then Magnus sue him!Just my two cents worth.

myrydin
27-Oct-22, 07:32

Good points, SSP, I am sure there are other defences that Magnus could use besides ‘truth’, it just depends on what the law of the area says.

I think it’s a bit cheeky to complain that somebody has called you a cheat after you have admitted to cheating previously on more than one occasion. It comes across as damaging your own reputation and then shooting the messenger.

jett22
27-Oct-22, 07:33

Good points

I, too, am quite interested in seeing where this goes. I agree with you, sound_studio_pro, that he did cheat. However, as you say and as does myrydin, the burden of proof is on Chess.com and Magnus. Supposedly, Chess.com has a fairly convincing packet of evidence.

I suppose if you look at the some percentage of moves by GMs that match a consensus of computer moves and then compare that to the percentage of moves that match Niemann's, you might show a significant amount of moves that Niemann matches to computer moves over the typical GM. (I think that could be better written but I hope you get my point.

euro_pop_legend
27-Oct-22, 09:35

I have not followed any of Magnus/Niemann games directly,but have read a few articles.
I would think that if chess.com has a large # of games to compare,rather than just a few
games,that might make all the difference with a computer cross check....but beyond the point
of "out of book"moves.With a Ruy Lopez,for example,any GM can memorize 30-40 moves,and no
"cheating" would be necessary,until late mid game or beyond.Interesting enough,after talking
to a lawyer friend of mine,he told me that Niemann was "shooting for the stars"with a
100 million dollar lawsuit.My lawyer friend went on to tell me that is common,so that even
winning a lawsuit,he might receive 5 or 10 million at most.100 million,I would think,chess.com
and any of their associates does not even have to begin with and they would just end up
claiming bankruptcy,possibly leaving Niemann with nothing.My lawyer went on to say that
most judges are not going to destroy an entire online or OTB chess business due to one
lawsuit claim.We will see what happens.If I was a GM,I would not even enter any online
games,for just the same reasons of what is going on right now with Magnus as well as
other online sites.

jett22
27-Oct-22, 09:57

Agree

It's a fishing expedition to net a settlement "out of court" with the amount not disclosed. However, that'll only work if Niemann can be convincing that he didn't cheat against whatever evidence that Chess.com has. If Chess.com has the goods, then they just might fight it. If so, that will be a compelling case to follow. Magnus, on the other hand, has been very careful with his words. But, his actions speak loud and clear.

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