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klingle 09-Aug-12, 17:08 |
 Team messagesteam "Block or Bleed" used both the team messages, and team forum, as much as any other team. In fact, I credit the use of both of these features for our team being #1 on the team ladder in each of the last 20 consecutive months. Assuming arguendo, that anyone is still reading, I offer the following: 1} Like many Captains, I try to involve non pemium members in team matters, and many have converted to premium membership, 2} When a team actively uses the team forum {consultive games against other teams, and GM's...instuctive games between team mates..., et.al.} the addition of regular team messaging to that site does not mechanically work because of the re-ordering of each thread with the addition of any new comment, or move, or question to any thread, 3} There was never an oppurtunity for Captains to advise team members of an impending change, or any transition, that permitted Captains to make allowances for such a dramatic change, 4} Team members want to know what viable discussions are taking place with the highly respected GK data processing "think tank" to address this issue in a win/win fashion, 5} I am one lowly captain of a small team of 55. I don't expect the GK universe to revolve around our team, but I would like to tell my members that a group of important, well- respected Captains was, at least, being consulted with over a problem that has so many players, and teams, upset. Klingle |
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Team Messages Chris.. |
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Now, I find it much harder to communicate with my team, because they don't use the team forum much. How can I inform my team that we need to switch to the team forum? I obviously can't send a message to the team, since that service has been arbitrarily terminated. Do I need to send an individual message to every team member now? Mike. |
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@mikesiva Could you please be more specific as to why is it "much harder to communicate" with your team via the team forum? We will try our best to address all your concerns. |
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klingle 13-Aug-12, 11:15 |
@gameknot.com reliance upon lay terms. Please consider that my team is playing a GM in a consultive game. I post the most recent move from the GM, and ask our members to post their analysis, and suggested moves in this game. While awaiting a sufficient number of members to suggest the next move, I post our regular "TIP OF THE DAY" to our team. Today's "tip" is about the strength of an outside passed pawn, and offers a diagram and request my teammates to solve the problem. Before anyone can see my "tip" it has been pushed down the team forum list because 3 members have suggested moves in the GM game, and 2 members have created new team forum posts about the fact that we are #1 on the ladder, and should avoid winning a team match while #1, thereby wasting the victory. My :tip of the day is now pushed down to the fourth spot on the "team Forum" list, and is largely ignored. Since my next "tip" is about protected passed pawns being stronger than outside passed pawns the lesson is lost on many mates. Additionally, like other Captains, my response rate to messages sent on the "forum" is about 25% of responses to the now defunct "send a message to my team". I ask you to read the Captain's club, and other responses by team Captain's on this issue which are heavily against this change. If it is not possible to even enter into a viable discussion with these Captain's, and look for a win/win solution, then tell us that so we can quit complaining, and do whatever each team must do. Thanks again for your response. |
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klingle 13-Aug-12, 13:11 |
@gameknot We are aware of the fact that many Captains, and teams are unhappy with the recent changes we have made to the team messaging feature. Since we do not Captain a team on GameKnot, we do not understand, nor want to understand, your concerns. The idea of consulting with concerned Captains in search of a win/ win solution is completely foreign to us since there are other game sites you can move to once your premium membership has expired. Have I got the essence of it? Before you remove me from this site, you asked for possible solutions. ... restore team messaging with monthly limits on Captains, ... establish more stringent monthly limits on Co-Captains, ... establish even more stringent restrictions on monthly team messaging on team members, ... give advance warning in the future to Captains before major changes so they can inform their team, and make plans to deal with those changes Thanks for listening, but I can't thank you for caring. |
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We are always open to all suggestions and comments (much less so to demands and threats). No, we are not going to consult everyone on every change we do on GameKnot. Not only it is not practical and would add months to implementation time, but it will also be impossible for everyone to agree on anything. Also, google "design by committee" some time. If you have any *specific* issues you'd like us to address, or *constructive* suggestions as to how we can improve the team forums — by all means, do let us know. And no, "change it back to the way it was" is not a constructive suggestion — at this point it's a step backwards. Once again, we do sincerely apologize for any inconvenience if this change caught you off guard or if you are not happy with it for one reason or another. We will try our best to make everyone happy, but we also have to keep improving, even if that means making some people unhappy. Judging from the feedback we have received (and also from a technical standpoint) this is a step in the right directly. |
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Team messages Chris |
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This is the first problem....the service was abruptly terminated without allowing members to get used to another means of communication. Here's an example....every now and then, I send out a PM to all members inviting them to take part in a team mini-tournament. I usually get about half a dozen replies from my team members. Yesterday, I had to create a thread on the team forum about it. To date, there are absolutely no replies on the thread. The simple truth is that a lot of members are not messageboarders, and communicate by PM, especially those for whom English is not a first language, but also including those who just become members of a team to play chess, and not engage in a messageboard conversation as we are. So, how do I suddenly get my members to change our habits of communication? It would've helped if you'd given us a certain amount of notice, so I could've geared my team members to this change of policy. Now, it seems I am going to have to individually send a PM to all 42 team members, one after the other, to direct their attention to this team forum, and try to get them involved. It seems like an unnecessary extra burden, entailing wasting a lot more time online than I had anticipated. It would have been wiser to make the changes more gradual. Here's how I would've done it if I was in your shoes.... 1) Take away this multi-PM facility from regular users. 2) Tell captains and co-captains that this facility will be taken away in three months' time, and suggesting the team forum as an alternative. That would at least give us time to get our members used to this new means of communication. 3) Send captains and co-captains reminders that this service is coming to an end, and have they put systems in place to compensate for the loss of this facility? It seems to me that you might not have realised how much the immediate loss of this facility has inconvenienced team captains and co-captains. Maybe now that you do, you could kindly reinstate the service for a two-month period, for example, for captains and co-captains only, maybe, and allow us to prepare our members for the messageboarding world.... If you don't plan to do that, how do you suggest I cajole my team members into becoming forumers? Send all 42 an individual PM on a monthly basis? Doesn't that create the same system backlog that you are trying to avoid? |
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knightgator 14-Aug-12, 06:30 |
Deleted by Gameknot.com on 14-Aug-12, 09:28.
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@kightgator Your post was deleted as off-topic. You are clearly a big fan of the "Big Bang Theory" TV show, but please stay with the discussion. |
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Team Messages @ GK I have not set up team mini-tournaments within our team in a few years now. This required responses from all team members, not just paying GK members so our team could organize such a team mini-tournament event. I used public broadcast messages to organize these team mini-tournaments. Now, this type of an event is not possible because the team forum does not allow free members to respond. Chris... |
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Given it to you straight |
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"So, how do I suddenly get my members to change our habits of communication? It would've helped if you'd given us a certain amount of notice, so I could've geared my team members to this change of policy. Now, it seems I am going to have to individually send a PM to all 42 team members, one after the other, to direct their attention to this team forum, and try to get them involved. It seems like an unnecessary extra burden, entailing wasting a lot more time online than I had anticipated." And.... "If you don't plan to do that, how do you suggest I cajole my team members into becoming forumers? Send all 42 an individual PM on a monthly basis? Doesn't that create the same system backlog that you are trying to avoid?" PS So far, still nobody has responded to my thread on the team forum....Do I need to prepare myself to PM all 42 members individually on a regular basis to try and inculcate a new mindset? |
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Team Messages @ GK |
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Team Messages It has been 17 days since GK stated they are working on a fixing this problem... Again, on Sunday when I give my weekly team update, no change.. @GK how are your changes progressing? Thanks, Chris |
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My questions were linked to how I can get my team members to change their culture. But those questions have been conveniently ignored. I've gone ahead and PM-ed all 42 members, but to date, not one of them is using the team forum. They are just not the forum-using types.... |
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Team messages Gameknot seems to be losing the most important thing about a business... Clients/customer are number 1.. Chris |
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Team Messages No teammates messaged our team back after I sent a 'Team Forum' message that our team achieved #1 on the team ladder. A first... GK is broken.. No fix for conditional moves.. No fix for Team messages.. My double thumbs down continues... Chris |
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von_gooms_gambit 01-Oct-12, 16:50 |
Team Messages - Requested Concrete Feedback I simply send my team message via the Gameknot private message option, and it is received by my team just like before. This means sending the message to each of my 10 team members individually, but this is a minor inconvenience. Unfortunately, this is not a feasible option for many Team Captains whose team may be much larger than mine. Our Gameknot representative has asked that we be specific about what we do not like, rather than just a general thumbs up or down, so I will try to provide some constructive feedback. To begin with, the team message is "buried" in the team forum at the bottom instead of the top of the message board. In addition, the message appears in the exact same font, color and size as the other various forum discussions it is mixed in with, there is no visual way to tell a forum post from a team message, they are identical. At the very least, considering that a team message is usually more important than other discussions in a team forum (at least for the short term), the team message should automatically post to the top of the team forum and have an appearance that sets it apart from normal forum posts, and readily identifiable as a team message. This could easily be done by changing the color of the font, and perhaps even bolding it as well. In addition, only premium members can reply to a team message, leaving any non-premium team members without a voice hurting the overall cohesive bond within the team. Also, and this has been mentioned in a previous post, another reason I dislike the changes made and unfortunately the most difficult one to express in concrete terms, is the fact that a team message is (in my opinion) important, time-sensitive, information that needs to be read by the entire team as soon as possible. However, the new way this "information" is delivered seems counter-intuitive to ensuring the messages importance. For example, most Gameknot users will check their private messages immediately upon notification of a new message, but that same Gameknot member does not have the same urgency when checking their team forum. This is not to say that the team forum is not important, but it is not checked regularly (hourly/daily) like email (i.e. Gameknot's private message system) is. Nothing about the new system "feels" right (sorry for the abstract term in support of my position, but in this case it unfortunately applies). The old message system, by the simple fact that it was delivered as a private message, made me confident that whatever information I sent to my team would be read in a timely fashion, and a dialog (concerning any questions or comments) could be initiated by premium and non-premium team members alike, if necessary. If going back to the old Team Message system is not an option, then please at least consider some of my suggestions to make the change a little "less painful". I love Gameknot, and I have always felt lucky that a place like this exists. Small to large improvements on Gameknot are common place, with the intention of constantly trying to improve the overall GUI or "ease-of-use", and the variety of other options that Gameknot's member have access to. I appreciate this, and makes me feel that Gameknot truly cares about it's members. Thus, I happily pay for my yearly premium membership knowing that I am getting the best value that exists for my dollar on the Internet. This being said, eventually there are always going to be some "growing pains" that Gameknot hadn't intended. This is simply a "growing pain". Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to express my opinions and personal observations. I hope it helps you (Gameknot) to have a better understanding of our concerns, instead of the initial general negativity and lack of communication from us. In order for Gameknot to fully understand our concerns, we need to be specific and objective. This isn't Facebook, we need to do more than just click on "like" or "dislike" in order to provide Gameknot with the feedback they need to understand the problem from our point-of-view. In this case, feedback from the people that use Team Messages the most, Captains, and Co-Captains, is critical. They can't help us unless we explain exactly why the new Team Message system no longer functions as the form of communication for which it was intended. If we simply seem to prefer old vs. new, the new system will stay as it is, because we are expressing our concerns subjectively (i.e. there will always be a portion of any group that dislikes change of any type, but that is to be expected). BUT, when a change significantly hinders the intended functionality, then it goes beyond our "preferences" and the specific issues affecting the intended functionality can be addressed and fixed. |
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Furthermore, the team forum uses the exact same software as this forum as well, so everything behaves the same way as here -- message threads with new posts are highlighted when you view the forum. If you would like for certain message threads to stand out from others, but don't want to make them sticky and always appear on top, you can simply add "****" or "=====" in the subject line. Or even put "IMPORTANT!" in the subject. Yes, team-wide messages no longer appear to have the same urgency as private messages. It was intentional and one of the reasons for this transition. We have received many complaints that it was not possible to "unsubscribe" from team-wide messages in case of an overactive team captains who liked to message their teams frequently (short of quitting the team altogether). Players still get the same "blinking envelope" icon (although in a different color) when there is a new post in the team forum, just like for private messages. But they now have the option to turn it off, if they wish. Hopefully this addresses all of your concerns? |
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Ive totally lost any interest in team messaging. I started a thread to c how many responses i would get. Id be lucky if i managed to get a third back. At least with the team msg option they would have received it regardless. "But they now have the option to turn it off, if they wish." That's awesome that they are able to do that, that really makes me feel like i want pump every spare minute i have into writing stuff that nobody gives a damn about! Quite simply .. Alot of guys and girls just don't know how to use the Team Forum Anyway I'm ova it .. by me having the sh**s with this. its given me more time with life, so i guess i can thank you for that |
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Sorry to point out the obvious, but there are different degrees of importance. Furthermore, a sticky thread doesn't have to be important, and an important thread doesn't always have to be sticky. That's why we also called it "sticky" in the options and not "important", so that not to pigeonhole its purpose. Some people like to have sticky threads for information that they would otherwise have to repeat for every new member of the team, for example. Sort of like "frequently asked questions" section. It's just a "tool" that can be used for many purposes (if applied correctly). But in any case, to give you an example, when you turn the knob labeled "hot water" all the way up and subsequently burn your hands trying to wash them, it's hardly reasonable to blame the plumber for that. Regarding the users being able to turn off notifications about new team forum posts — it is one of those things where no matter what we do, it's impossible to satisfy everyone. We do understand that some captains like to have a very tight grip on their teams. However, we also have to make sure the ordinary team players are happy too, which is why this option exists. Some team captains want bells ringing on every computer the moment they post a new message (perfectly understandable), and some team players want the peace and quiet, and they'll check the team forum once in a while when they have a spare moment (also reasonable). How would you propose we keep both sides happy? In some way, it is similar to dictatorship vs. democracy. Both models have their advantages, but we all know where the world is moving to... And finally, regarding "Alot of guys and girls just don't know how to use the Team Forum". Surely all those guys and girls can learn new things too — if you explain how the team forum works, show them how to use it, guide them in some way. Can't really think of a better role for the team captain — to lead their team into new frontiers, uncharted territories... |
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Team messages Gameknot just put things back the way they were. This cannot be that difficult. What you are doing is a step backwards, not forwards. I have noticed a gradual decline in the number active games here at Gameknot over the past six months or so. I would like to say more, but better bite my tongue... Chris |
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You are probably not aware, but website traffic generally decreases over summer months. Happens every year, for obvious reasons. People go back to playing more games in the fall though. Not guaranteed every year of course, but thanks for your concern. P.S. Regarding your humouros comment "I would like to say more, but better bite my tongue" — we have an inside joke here as well, that a customer support unform should include a tongue protector. Made out of kevlar. |
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