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jlinville75
05-Mar-12, 19:55
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 Conditional moves |
l-d-j
20-Mar-12, 09:15
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I think...
...that you shouldn't be too worried about conditional moves. What's the problem when someone has set conditional moves? Just keep looking at the board properly, like you always do, and take a little break if you can't concentrate on one game for so long.
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jlinville75
20-Mar-12, 10:25
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The problem is that its the computer making the move, not the person, Im not here to play the computer. Has nothing to do with looking at a board or playing too many games lol the point seems to have definitely missed you
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chessdrik
20-Mar-12, 12:25
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So your problem is that the computer makes the moves your opponent has decided to make?
Sorry, but why should that be a problem?
It is still the person who decides which move to make. Not any computer. You are playing against a person, not against a computer (if your opponent is not cheating).
What is the difference? If your opponent has made up his mind to make a specific move if you make your move he will still make the same move regardless of cond. moves.
Cond. moves speed up the game and are very good at it.
I really do not understand why this is a problem? And I do not understand why this should be a problem in tournaments but not in normal games?
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jlinville75
20-Mar-12, 15:04
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The opponent does not make conditional moves. The computer does. How else can I put it?
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chessdrik
20-Mar-12, 15:12
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OK, I understand that cond. moves are made automatically by the computer. But what is the problem with that? Why is this a bad thing?
It are exactly the moves the opponent entered. The only difference is that he entered it as cond. moves instead of normal moves. And they are made instantly instead of making you wait until the opponent is online again.
I really do not understand why you think you play against the computer instead of the opponent because your opponent chooses to use cond. moves. You are NOT playing against a computer.
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evader23
17-Oct-12, 08:00
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Jlinville you are still palying a person. The person you are playing has just made up his/her mind what move to play in advance. If you only have one or two leagal move your opponent can deicde what response to play for those two move it speeds up the game. I think that is a good thing. Sometime when I play I use conditional move so I don't forget what I was going to do
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tactical_abyss
21-Oct-12, 22:37
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conditional moves/computer database confusions....
I'm not saying this is the case here,but alot of players that are newer to corresp chess or players that are somewhat novices in rating strength,confuse conditional moves with database/book moves.When conditional moves are made,for example,in the midgame or endgame,they are,for the most part,"purely" conditional and are thought out by the opponent,placed in the conditional move string by the opponent and then the computer relays this info to the other player.In the opening,however,the same thing occurs,BUT many times a conditional move string is COMBINED with an "in book" or database series of moves,which many players get confused or upset about because its either a computer generated series of moves from some past GM game(for example)or out of some chess paperback book or the GK database.Some players feel this is not fair or some form of cheating because the opponent is using a computer generated database for their first 10 to 30 moves.It is fair and allowed however to use an opening database from any source(in corresp chess) as long as the opponent is not actually using any type of chess program to analyze the moves,even though a database is technically illustrating the opening move's for the opponent from string memory of other games and SHOWING you the different ways to move or perhaps better statistical moves over another move or series of moves.
So,technically,in an opening database,your ARE allowing a computer to generate opening moves for you that you can hand pick from a series of database moves and tie them into your conditional move string....so its really not your game but someones else's game from the past!Cheating?No,not at all,but some players get confused about the differences.
Keep in mind again,all chess database moves in conditional strings are legal.Its up to both opponents to keep abreast of the best statistical database moves,if they want to improve and/or compete on an equal or better level against others using allowed sources of info on openings.One of the secrets of success to the best players in OTB as well as corresp chess is being prepared with the BETTER database as opposed to an older and not updated database that OTB opponents can memorize prior to a tournament or corresp players can openly use right aside of them as they are inputing conditional moves on GK.
Again,this may not be the case with what jlinville75 is speaking about,but then,maybe it is?And if not,then this bit of info is for anyone else.Conditional moves as well as database moves cannot,and will never be disabled in any corresp play games,tournament,or others.They have been around for over a hundred years,long before the computer was invented,but the pony express was around for postal games!
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evader23
22-Oct-12, 06:39
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Maybe I missed somthing in there
Are you saying you can't use conditional moves in the opening becasue the opening is in the database. How is using a conditional move that is in a database any differant then memorizing a opening and playing that OTB. I am not saying I do this but I am just asking. And btw consulsting a opening book/database is perfectly legal in corr. Chess
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tactical_abyss
22-Oct-12, 06:56
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No,I never said above anywhere that using conditional moves can't be used in the opening with or without database usage.Infact,I said that you can leagally use them in corresp play....conditional moves and a database...please reread.I simply pointed out that some players confuse conditional moves vs database moves simply believing that databases perhaps should not be allowed in a conditional move string,but of course,this cannot and will never occur.
So evader23,its jlinville75 that believes conditional moves should be "disabled"in tourneys,not me!I'm simply pointing out different mindsets and beliefs some players have regarding conditional moves and book moves,sometimes confusing them both.When I play a Ruy Lopez for example,I may use up to 35(yes 35)conditional moves in the opening that are STILL in book database moves!Some players do not like this,because it so "automatic" and "seemingly"computer respondent like while i'm not even at the board,that they dislike it.But thats life in corresp play!By the way,"my book runnith deeper"is usually my receipe over other players and i use conditional moves probably atleast 30 or more times during every game,even for moves that are NOT obvious.
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evader23
22-Oct-12, 07:04
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Thank you tactical that makes sense to me and I hop to others as well. I too am I believer in knowing more and deeper openings gives a person an edge and if (s)he wants to analyze every move thirty moves deep and make the best move via conditional move than more power to them. I do that to sometimes it is the nature of corr. chess
So tactical you, me, same page
Thank you for clearing up your position
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