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knightrider62 13-Dec-15, 14:59	Pushed pawns I seem to have problems against opponents who push pawns, and wonder why this is? I always commence my games by trying to develop my pieces and castle early, only to lose some games to pushed pawns and fairy early attacks of combined Queen and knight, or Queen and bishop attacks, driving back my pieces and threatening my King. What am I doing wrong. I always develop the Queen last, as I thought this was one of the opening chess rules?
deeper_insight 13-Dec-15, 17:34	Perhaps a few of these guidelines may help: Knightrider62,perhaps some of these facts may help.I do not have the time right now to check out your games,but hopefully a few of these things may assist you: 1.Generally,when you are successful in opening up the center,this will give you more key access to weaker squares behind the pawn mass that is advancing on you,many times destroying a pawn storm push.Perhaps you are keeping the center closed for too long a period of time? 2.Aggressive moves towards the center of the board,including attacks and exchanges will usually dominate any pawn storming attacks on the wings of the board. 3.Try to control or occupy any of the open squares that are behind the pawn advancements of your opponent. 4.Holding back on your Q move's is ok,but not necessarily good to "wait" to develop your Q last.Some styles of games require early Q moves.The Center Counter Defense and the Center game are two examples. 5.It is possible that you are over-extended and have placed your pieces such that your opponent is forcing a retreat of your misplaced pieces to inefficient squares. 6.If your pieces are getting trapped through a pawn push then you need to open a space for their escape as soon as possible. In the future I may include diagrams,but not right now,no time.I'll put it on my "to do"list however.
deeper_insight 13-Dec-15, 17:48	Also,knightrider62.... Let me add to the above facts that in the intro thread you mentioned about playing against the computer.This is always a good idea to prove many of the salient points above.Get Rybka,Houdini or other decent programs and set up pawn pushes yourself from your opponent by using one of your old finished games and back up the moves prior to where you feel you went wrong.Then let the program play your corrected moves for you in that old finished game.You will see many times that the program will initiate a central pawn exchange and open the center up,including Knight and Bishop moves that "bear down"on the center but do not necessarily occupy it.The program will teach you how to move in those circumstances and give you a pattern recognition for future live games without computer assistance.
hogfysshe 13-Dec-15, 18:38	knightrider, I looked through several of your games. and while I did see some advancing pawns, there are probably other things that caused trouble that may be even more important. maybe post a few specific games and ask club members to comment. maybe we'll point out some things you hadn't considered and that you'll find helpful. you probably know this. in case not, to post a game just put gm= in front of a game number. for example, game vs fousta is 23851020. put gm= in front of that and you get a clickable link like this game
deeper_insight 14-Dec-15, 04:36	Todd,thanks for posting that game and looking into others for knightrider.With the holidays coming up,I do not have much time to analyze,but perhaps I can take a look at the link above or others when posted in this thread....it will make my job easier. By the way,posting games also works with bd= instead of gm= For some reason,I have always been using bd= and I do not even remember where I found out about that,since it is not listed under the usual special code support.
knightrider62 14-Dec-15, 04:52	Thank you Thank .you hogfysshe for looking at some of my games and also to tactical abyss for a your comments. Hope you both have a merry Christmas and Happy. New year.
baddeeds 15-Dec-15, 19:49	The other thing to note is that if those pushed pawns are passers, they're quite dangerous. I've annotated a few games where that was the case, and am currently, working on a similar annotation which is almost finished. What you need to be weary of, which my coach has emphasized are passed pawns. Now, passed pawns, are pawns on a file by themselves. That is, with no pawns in front or aside of them. They can be very dangerous and will often promote. If you find that, then what to also look out for is open files which are nasty, as well. The trick is that with a passer, say you had to Rook to stop it, then all the opponent must do is bring their rook behind it, and it would still be a mess. I hope this helps.
penguin_ 16-Dec-15, 03:55	Passed pawns can be game changers. I recently had a game in which I had a passed pawn. It caused my opponent to have to alter his game play to deal with the passed pawn and I was able to win the game because of it.
marcusleus 20-Dec-15, 08:47	Deleted by deeper_insight on 25-Dec-15, 18:22.
baddeeds 25-Dec-15, 04:06	Now that I think of it, I've got a link on passed pawns, and this was right when I learned just how dangerous they are. With that, I absolutely agree with penguin_. gameknot.com
baddeeds 25-Dec-15, 04:17	gameknot.com game For example, I won both of these games with passed pawns. And, in the second game with fvtmini99, it was my turn when he resigned. So, I would've continued with 58...Kc4, followed by 59...b3 With the passer near the K, my pawn would've promoted. From there, I would've forced the monarch in the corner and would deliver mate, from there.
deeper_insight 25-Dec-15, 05:41	Pushed vs passed pawns I think this thread has gotten off of the original theme,unless knightrider62 has used his terminology incorrectly.But based upon knightriders game link provided by Todd,I do not think so. There is a difference between pawn pushing and passed pawns. Passed pawns in basic definition is are pawns that no enemy pawn(s) can stop from queening. A pushed pawn can be stopped or maybe not,so this differentiates it from a "passed pawn". With my wall of death games(example's below in the link))...those are pushed pawns,not passed pawns,well,at least not initially: gameknot.com So,Knightrider may be having problems with any kind of "pushed pawns",even in the opening. But passed pawns that occur more in the endgame or towards the endgame are of a different breed than knightrider may be trying to bring to light.
deeper_insight 25-Dec-15, 05:48	So again,knightriders game here: game His opponent is pushing pawns in the opening,not creating "passed pawns".So,knightrider is trying to explain that he has trouble playing against multiple pawn pushing or possibly pawn storming....not necessarily a passed pawn scenario.
ace-of-aces 25-Dec-15, 08:19	Deleted by deeper_insight on 25-Dec-15, 17:53.
ace-of-aces 25-Dec-15, 08:55	Deleted by deeper_insight on 25-Dec-15, 17:53.
ace-of-aces 25-Dec-15, 09:08	Deleted by deeper_insight on 25-Dec-15, 17:53.
deeper_insight 25-Dec-15, 10:36	Partial analysis of just one game from Knightrider62... game I am not going to completely analyze Knightriders game above as Todd posted,Just pick out a few opening weakness's that may assist him to improve. When an opponent plays irregular in the opening and its a corresp game,not a blitz game,the idea is to control the center of the board first,(at least with players of Knightriders rating ability).So,Knightriders move of 1.....c5 is already on the weaker side of play.No,it is not a bad move,just not what should be played as a "better"move.The best black moves in his game above against fousta(transpositional or otherwise against 1.h4) would be either 1....d5,(opening up that Bishop diagonal)already placing pressure on a weakened edgefile and future potential f2 square attack)or 1....Nf6,a standard deployment central square pressure you see in so many games.Both of those moves would have controlled the center better than 1....c5. So Knightrider seems to be playing "off the cuff",not really taking the time and energy to look into any better book lines to continue into his opponents irregular opening.That is Knightriders origin of his errors.So my suggestion is to seek out any decent book lines to continue in an irregular opening such as the game posted.There may be only one or two initial first moves to search into a book line with some irregulars,but it helps.The move of 1.....c5 is out of book already(unless it is an inferior book) and is not what you should have played. When pawn pushing occurs,especially in combination with your opponent developing central pressure with a Knight or Bishop,try to force retreat of that major piece which in turn,causes a loss of tempo.So,on Knightriders 4th move,he should have attacked whites Knight on e4,which was prematurely place there.4.....f5 would have easily accomplished this,instead of 4....Be7. Again,it seems that Knightrider is lacking in opening development which has the ability of neutralizing many of his opponents pawn pushing threats by keeping him busy elsewhere on the board. Yet,by move #4 he is not doing badly(yet),just not doing as good as he could be doing. Skipping to move #7 is the next rule of thumb: If you meet a pawn pusher,equalize or sterilize with your own pawn pushing. So,instead of 7.....b6,Knightrider should have moved 7......d5.Then,if 8.cxd5,Qxd5,this is already opening up the center(which is one of the things I listed above,to help neutralize pawn pushing advancements).If then instead...8.Bg2...this would still be good for black because of 8....dxc4 and then 9.dxc4 to again open up the center creating a neutralizing effect on his pawn pusher. White(Knightriders opponent) made a blunder early on move # 9.See it?He moved 9.gxf4.He should have moved 9.Bxf4(instead of his move of 9....d6),keeping his flank pawn in attack mode and defended.But Knightrider did not see this blunder of his opponent at all. Knightrider should have responded with 9....Bxh4+!This would have evaporated that troublesome flank pawn and gave Knightrider a pawn "up"....thus beginning to demolish any credible pawn pushing or pawn storming effects on whites side of the game: The "should have" moved response for black,with 9....Bxh4+!: Note how all the open weak squares have now been magnified(with an adjusted move of 9.Bxh4,instead of 9....d6).There would have been open squares around whites King,an open f2 square(very weak) and an inverted pawn pattern formation on whites side which in theory is also weaker especially from that base pawn area,which can be exploited later on.In addition take strong note to the fact that with the above diagram,whites King would be forced to move to d2.This would dissolve any possibility of future castling on whites side.Artificial castling would still be possible,but that would cause a loss of tempo which is another weakness and another discussion not intended for this thread.Above,the only other option would be for white to capture that Bishop with his h1 Rook,which would only intensify his bad position. So,Knightrider62, To summarize,there is weak opening moves going on with both sides of the board in the game above,but I am sure there are many others of yours that mirror this game.But your opponent pawn pushes that you feel is destroying you from time to time,can be fairly easily neutralized,by looking a bit closer in the opening,controlling central board pressure better,and/or opening up the center with exchanges(as I have listed earlier in this thread). Keep in mind that pawn pushing(not passed pawns,that's different),tends to(by theory)weaken the square(s)behind the pushed pawns in the opening.So,it is not advisable for your opponent to push pawns in the opening of the game.Yes,to unblock a Bishop or two,but that is about it for the most part. Keep vigil at holes developed by pushed pawns and place pressure on those holes or occupy those weak areas with your own piece(s)eventually if not sooner. So,the conclusion is that "pushed pawns"should not be feared but exploited.Pushed pawns are truly weak in an opening.With fast paced blitz that may be an exception to the rule,especially when going against opponents like me,but we are not discussing me,but you Knightrider62. If exploitation of pushed pawns is not done early enough in the game,then "passed pawns"as jkarp and others have described above will most probably ensue as a result in the endgame. TA
deeper_insight 25-Dec-15, 10:53	Just rereading any errors above,I found one.Second paragraph above the diagram I said...(instead of his move of 9....d6).I meant to say either nothing there or "blacks" move of 9....d6 was simply very weak.I was just in a hurry typing.If there are others,just tell me and I will correct it.But you all get the idea,I hope!
knightrider62 25-Dec-15, 13:20	Thank you thank you all for your responses to my above thread. I was indeed referring to pushed pawns or pawn storms and chains on n th e opening. Apart from careless blunders, all my lost games, occur because of these problems. I will definitely study the above links tomorrow, and also read TA's responses again more slowly. Thanks once. again.
deeper_insight 25-Dec-15, 14:05	Hope my comments will be helpful knightrider.I knew you were discussing pushed pawns and pawn storms/chains.....NOT passed pawns,which is different.So,I had to make a comment above to separate the differences so future readers do not get confused between the two types of pawns.Pawn pushing does actually weaken the side of the player pushing those pawns.You just have to understand how to exploit.Following a post game analysis on a computer program like Fritz or Shredder,can easily pave the way for you to "see"what the computer response would be and then you can try to remember those moves in future games. Merry X-Mas!
ace-of-aces 25-Dec-15, 16:32	Deleted by deeper_insight on 25-Dec-15, 17:54.

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